Control pedal doesn’t work as intended in Extern mode (NS4)

[rkandrade]

Hi everyone, how’s it going?

I own a Nord Stage 4 and I can’t get my control pedal to work correctly via MIDI when using it with other keyboards.
I want volume/expression messages not to be sent to the second keyboard.

On the “Extern Settings” screen, I disabled “Ctrl Pedal MIDI”, “Swell Pedal MIDI”, and “Volume Pedal MIDI” for the corresponding synth layer, but the control pedal still changes the volume of the second keyboard.

I confirmed this behavior using Snoize MIDI Monitor: no matter what configuration I choose in “Extern Settings”, CC7 is always being sent.

On the other hand, the control pedal works correctly when I use the Global Channel with “Control Change Mode” and “Device Change Mode” set to Off (also confirmed with Snoize MIDI Monitor). When I turn them off, CC7 transmission stops.
So, with the Extern Channel, the pedal does not behave as expected, while with the Global Channel everything works as intended.

On my previous keyboard (Roland Jupiter XM), my workaround was to disable the reception of volume and expression messages from the control pedal for each part of each scene I was using. It worked, but it was quite time-consuming, since I had to configure every scene.
However, on my current keyboard (Yamaha MODX M6), this is no longer possible, because I can’t differentiate volume messages coming from the control pedal versus those coming from the keyboard’s own controls. If I turn off the “Vol/Expr” switch in the MODX performance settings, it’s no longer possible to control the volume of each part using the volume sliders. Unfortunately, this is a limitation of the MODX system.

At this point, I’m stuck with this issue, because I can’t use my expression pedal on the Nord to control Organ swell or Morph parameters and at the same time use Extern Mode to play the second keyboard.

I’d like to say that I’m really loving the Nord Stage 4 — it’s an amazing instrument and fits my needs perfectly. This is the only issue that is currently getting in the way of my setup.

Does anyone know how to solve this problem? How can I prevent the Nord from changing the volume of the second keyboard? Or is this actually a bug in the NS4?
It seems that the Control Pedal is internally treated as a Device MIDI Message even in Extern Mode, but this logic is not correctly applied to the Extern Channel, causing CC7 to be transmitted despite the Extern Layer settings.

Note: This seems to be the same issue reported in this thread:
viewtopic.php?t=20804

Summary of my settings:

- NS4 OS Version: v1.64
- Expression pedal: connected to Control Pedal input

PEDAL SETTINGS
- Control Pedal Type: Yamaha FC7
- Control Pedal Func: Control + Swell

MIDI SETTINGS
- Global Channel: 14
- Organ, Piano, Synth Channel: All Off
- Extern Channel: 11, 12, 13
- Control Change Type: CC & NRPN
- Control Change Mode: Off
- Device Change Mode: Off
- Program Change Mode: Off

EXTERN SETTINGS
- Echo Global to Extern Ch: Off
- ModWheel MIDI: All Off (This works)
- Aftertouch MIDI: All On (This works)
- Ctrl Pedal MIDI: All Off (This does not work)
- Swell Pedal MIDI: All Off (This works when the pedal is connected to the Organ Swell input)
- Volume Pedal MIDI: All Off (This does not work)

Thanks so much for any help!
Best regards,
Rafael

[maxpiano]

Hello and welcome to NUF

reading your issue details makes me think of a couple of things I'd check

Maybe you have an active Morph between CtrlPed and that synth layer Volume (fader)?

Or maybe you are using for Extern the same channel as the Global (then better use a distinct one) ?

[changearound]

What is Pedal Settings Swell Pedal Func set to?

[rkandrade]

Hello and welcome to NUF

reading your issue details makes me think of a couple of things I'd check

Maybe you have an active Morph between CtrlPed and that synth layer Volume (fader)?

Or maybe you are using for Extern the same channel as the Global (then better use a distinct one) ?

Thank you very much for your attention!

Morphs: I’m not using any Morph assignment between the Control Pedal and the Extern layer volume. In any case, I also tested with an init program, and the problem still occurs.

MIDI Channels: The Extern Channels (11, 12, 13) are different from the Global Channel (14). I also tested with the Global Channel set to Off, and the problem still persists.

[rkandrade]

What is Pedal Settings Swell Pedal Func set to?

Thanks for your reply.

The issue happens regardless of the Swell Pedal Func setting (Swell, Volume, Wheel Morph). Also, my expression pedal is connected to the Control Pedal input, so I think that the Swell Pedal Func setting should not affect it — only the Control Pedal Function setting should apply in this case.

[Schorsch]

That sound like a bug in the current firmware version of the NS4, have you reported it to Nord using their support form on the website

https://www.nordkeyboards.com/support/

or contact their master distributor for your country which is also the Nord support contact

[changearound]

What is Pedal Settings Swell Pedal Func set to?

Thanks for your reply.

The issue happens regardless of the Swell Pedal Func setting (Swell, Volume, Wheel Morph). Also, my expression pedal is connected to the Control Pedal input, so I think that the Swell Pedal Func setting should not affect it — only the Control Pedal Function setting should apply in this case.

I was thinking maybe the cc7 issue would only happen when Swell Pedal Func was set to Volume and Control Pedal Func set to Control + Swell. The Control Pedal would then also be sending midi for the swell Pedal which kind of makes sense. This is clearly not the case however.

I tend to agree with Scorsch - it sounds like a bug and should be reported to Nord. It may not be fixed quickly however.

In the meantime, some kind of midi filter box gadget may be the answer. A CME H2 or H4 would do it.

[rkandrade]

Hi everyone, I did some additional tests and I’d like to share the results with you.

Pedal connected to the ORGAN SWELL input.
When Pedal Settings – Swell Pedal Function is set to Swell:
* If Extern Settings – Swell Pedal MIDI is enabled, CC4 is sent. If it is disabled, CC4 is not sent. This is the expected behavior.

When Pedal Settings – Swell Pedal Function is set to Volume:
* If Extern Settings – Volume Pedal MIDI is enabled, CC7 is sent. If it is disabled, CC7 is not sent. This is also the expected behavior.

Pedal connected to the CONTROL PEDAL input.
When Pedal Settings – Control Pedal Function is set to Control:
* If Extern Settings – Ctrl Pedal MIDI is enabled, CC11 is sent. If it is disabled, CC11 is still sent. This is incorrect behavior.

When Pedal Settings – Control Pedal Function is set to Control + Swell:
* If Extern Settings – Ctrl Pedal MIDI is enabled, CC11 is sent. If it is disabled, CC11 is still sent. This is incorrect behavior.
* If Extern Settings – Swell Pedal MIDI is enabled, CC4 is sent. If it is disabled, CC4 is not sent. This part works as expected.

So the issue only occurs with the Ctrl Pedal MIDI setting. No matter what I do, CC11 is always transmitted when using Extern Mode.
However, when using the Global Channel, CC11 is not sent if MIDI Settings – Device Change Mode is set to Off, exactly as I described in my first post. In short, the problem only happens in Extern Mode.

Note: In all tests, I used an initialized program, with the Synth Layer Extern Channel set to MIDI channel 11 and the Global Channel set to Off.

[rkandrade]

What is Pedal Settings Swell Pedal Func set to?

Thanks for your reply.

The issue happens regardless of the Swell Pedal Func setting (Swell, Volume, Wheel Morph). Also, my expression pedal is connected to the Control Pedal input, so I think that the Swell Pedal Func setting should not affect it — only the Control Pedal Function setting should apply in this case.

I was thinking maybe the cc7 issue would only happen when Swell Pedal Func was set to Volume and Control Pedal Func set to Control + Swell. The Control Pedal would then also be sending midi for the swell Pedal which kind of makes sense. This is clearly not the case however.

I tend to agree with Scorsch - it sounds like a bug and should be reported to Nord. It may not be fixed quickly however.

In the meantime, some kind of midi filter box gadget may be the answer. A CME H2 or H4 would do it.

Yes, you were right to think that way — in my original post I wrote CC7 instead of CC11. My bad I was already a bit confused after so many tests, haha.

I did a new test here and verified that when Pedal Settings – Control Pedal Function is set to Control + Swell, cc11 and cc4 are sent. In this case, cc4 is sent regardless of the value set in Pedal Settings – Swell Pedal Function (Swell, Volume, Wheel Morph)

Thank you for your help!

[changearound]

Thanks for your reply.

The issue happens regardless of the Swell Pedal Func setting (Swell, Volume, Wheel Morph). Also, my expression pedal is connected to the Control Pedal input, so I think that the Swell Pedal Func setting should not affect it — only the Control Pedal Function setting should apply in this case.

I was thinking maybe the cc7 issue would only happen when Swell Pedal Func was set to Volume and Control Pedal Func set to Control + Swell. The Control Pedal would then also be sending midi for the swell Pedal which kind of makes sense. This is clearly not the case however.

I tend to agree with Scorsch - it sounds like a bug and should be reported to Nord. It may not be fixed quickly however.

In the meantime, some kind of midi filter box gadget may be the answer. A CME H2 or H4 would do it.

Yes, you were right to think that way — in my original post I wrote CC7 instead of CC11. My bad I was already a bit confused after so many tests, haha.

I did a new test here and verified that when Pedal Settings – Control Pedal Function is set to Control + Swell, cc11 and cc4 are sent. In this case, cc4 is sent regardless of the value set in Pedal Settings – Swell Pedal Function (Swell, Volume, Wheel Morph)

Thank you for your help!

Thanks for the clarification.