MIDI monitoring system for freq., efx etc.

[MatthewH]

Beautiful day to everyone!

I'm a proud owner of the Nord Stage 3 (88 version), the best board Nord has ever made, but let's be honest, it's too big and heavy for me to travel with it without problems wherever I feel like going. So I'm one step away from buying the NS4 73HA. It has a perfect keybed and size, but that's about all I like about it...

I have these problems with it (probably like everyone):
- No program mode
- No LED indicators in filter freq and effects (Even NS2 could do it)
- Synth attack/decay/release in hidden menu
- Impossibility of seeing all turned on effects at the same moment
- Volume faders instead of knobs (just why...)

I think it could be partialy solved with some other MIDI device - I'm thinking of Behringer X-Touch Mini and TouchOSC app combination. And there comes my problem. Changing something with MIDI is quite easy even for MIDI beginner like me, but it would be absolutely superb if I could receive MIDI information after a program change about synth freq. position, amount of effects etc. It would be so easy to monitor my presets without time-wasting build in monitor function in Nord which you have to operate with two hands...

Is it possible? I'm testing it on my NS3 right now and can't think of any solution.

[maxpiano]

Hello and welcome to NUF.

There is no way to have NS4 automatically send a dump of all MIDI parameters when switching Program, so that part of your idea cannot be implemented easily, instead having some external controller sending MIDI CC to modify those parameters is of course possible and easy to do.

But (question):are you sure you really need it? Your current Nord Stage 3 also is missing the filter, fx, envelopes etc... encoder leds, has this really been a problem so far for you?

About envelope, it is not hidden if you leave the envelope screen selected (for the Programs where you need to interact with it in real time, if tou really have to)

Also on all other NS you can only see the active FX of the currently selected Panel/slot, so once again: has this really been a problem in actual (live) usage?

Volume faders are instead a very good addition, in my opinion: you can see and set the levels of all layers (even inactive ones) without having to switch Panel/Slot (not possible on previous NS models)

[MatthewH]

Just my brainstorming - what about some button in TouchOSC which would request current parameters from Nord? My idea is I change the program on Nord, press the button that updates my labels (at best even faders, radials and switches) in TouchOSC...

I don't need update, NS3 is perfect for me but I joined a band where there is no space for full 88 version in the car and traveling alone isn't really a smart choice because of high travel costs. Also, I'm a pianist, so NS4 with 73 hammer action is the best and only usable if I want great keybed and compact dimensions.

Volume faders are instead a very good addition, in my opinion: you can see and set the levels of all layers (even inactive ones) without having to switch Panel/Slot (not possible on previous NS models)

Imagine going from preset 1 - every fader is on maximum to preset 2 - where only 1 fader is on max and others are lower. If you edit anything, you get "sound bump". It sounds horrible, especially in some soft ballads... It's the same thing why I like digital drawbars, NS3 compact at least had Live mode for it, so you could operate it like real organ.

About envelope, it is not hidden if you leave the envelope screen selected (for the Programs where you need to interact with it in real time, if tou really have to)

Envelope edit and effects aren't visible all the time - sometimes you forget to turn off effect and you don't know where. Also, you cannot save to have automatically displayed envelope edit menu when program is loaded so you have to enter it every time. NS4 isn't friendly stage piano anymore, it's getting more and more like a workstation and if I wanted a workstation I would have bought Kronos...
(I also think that NS3 has better sounding synth, but that is only my relative feeling, however, what I can say with certainty, NS4 is a REALLY BAD keyboard overall. Unfortunately, only one on the market...)

[maxpiano]

Problem is: how would you "request" a parameter from Nord? There is no standard MIDI message to do that and NS4 sysex is not documented.

About volume faders, you are correct actually, the lack of a "catch" mode creates that problem, hope Nord may introduce it with an OS update

About FXs, as said the same can happen on NS3 if you have a dual Panels program, if you have Panel Active you cannot see Panel B FX status, the solution here is doing good programming before the live; anyway the advantage of having 1 FX per layer/section on NS4 has its drawbacks, it would be impossible to have all controls for all of them on the panel.

(btw I also have a NS3, not HA but SW, so I was considering switching to NS4 HA73, but having some doubts and no hurry, like you )

[MatthewH]

Problem is: how would you "request" a parameter from Nord? There is no standard MIDI message to do that and NS4 sysex is not documented.

I was hoping that some engineer (or maybe a magician at this point ) could solved this problem here on the forum.
More complex midi implementation from Nord would allow to resolve nearly all user issues...

[maxpiano]

You can join the club of NS4 OS updates requests viewtopic.php?t=23741

[anotherscott]

it would be absolutely superb if I could receive MIDI information after a program change about synth freq. position, amount of effects etc.

Not possible on the NS3. However, this is one of the situations that MIDI 2.0 is designed to address. It provides a protocol that allows one device to send an inquiry to another device, to ask how its parameters are set. So maybe we'll see that kind of thing in the future, maybe the NS5.

I'm a proud owner of the Nord Stage 3...I'm one step away from buying the NS4...I have these problems with it (probably like everyone):

- "No program mode" --- I'm guessing you mean Song mode. I think the NS4 wouldn't benefit from it as much as the NS3 did anyway, as I talked about at viewtopic.php?p=182932 - and overall, in terms of patch navigation and selection, while you do lose Song mode, you do gain the ability to create banks of up to 8 screen-labeled sounds, instead of banks of up to 5 unlabeled ones, which, personally, is a "quick access" trade-off that I was happy to make. (Sound Manager still gives me a good way to organize sounds in advance of a gig; and alphabetic view is still available to help me quickly find something that wasn't in the set.)

- "No LED indicators in filter freq and effects" --- Yeah, the LED-encircled endless encoders on the NS2 wefre really nice, but as maxpiano said, the NS3 didn't have them either

- "Synth attack/decay/release in hidden menu" --- It's not hidden in a menu... You select the synth sound you want to control (which you also had to do on the NS3), then you hit the button for the envelope you want to control (filter, amp, or osc) (so that's one additional button to press, but it's right on the front panel, there's no menu dive). This is actually better than on the NS3, because, once you hit the button, you get 3 continuous encoders for the envelope controls (instead of fixed pots as on the NS3) and a visual graphic display of the current settings, so the envelope controls are much like the filter and effects LED-encircled endless encoders we miss from the NS2.

- "Impossibility of seeing all turned on effects at the same moment" --- again as maxpiano said, you can't see them all at the same time on the NE3 either... though because a Program can now have more effects than were available on the NS3, the number of things you're not seeing can be greater.

- "Volume faders instead of knobs (just why...)" --- This may be an issue of space. Again,picking up from maxpiano's comment, you can now see the volume levels for all 7 of your sounds simultaneously, whereas the NS3 only had 3 such volume controls. Again, I share your fondness for the LED-encircled endless encoders, since real-time adjustments are always smooth, but 7 of those knobs would take up a lot more room than the 7 sliders (the 73 at least probably couldn't accommodate them, at least not without making the board bigger and heavier, and probably even pricier). And at least the sliders do have the virtue of more easily letting you see the relative levels of things at a glance.