Yes, I think the particular feature of using Song Mode to group up to 5 Programs together (i.e. if a single song required switching among multiple Programs) would not be nearly as useful on the NS4, because a single Program is so much more capable. I think the need for a single song to make use of multiple Programs is greatly reduced, not just by the "Layer Scene II" button, but also by the fact that a single Program can now have a third Synth sound, and also the fact that each part of a Program can now have its own independent effect settings, and also the improvements in the ability to more quickly and easily switch individual sounds on and off on the fly (i.e. you can now quickly bring a single component piano, organ, or synth sound in or out independently of anything else since you have instant front panel access to each of those individual component sounds, instead of having to switch entire panels to access different component parts of the Program). Put all that together, and I think a lot of sound changes that would lead you to want to use multiple Programs on the NS3 can now be done within a single Program on the NS4.*
For the people who are bemoaning the loss of Song Mode on the NS4, I wonder how many really miss that grouping function, as opposed to just missing the set list ordering and re-ordering part.
And actually, getting back to freakybeak's original question here, the set list ordering and re-ordering function can largely be replicated in the NS4 as well... even without any external devices. The NS3 had 400 Program locations (and 400 Song locations). The NS4 has 512 Program locations. If you devoted 112 locations to sets, you'd still have as many Program locations as the NS3 had. For a given gig, you could copy your needed programs into those locations you've reserved for set list management (say bank H, and also most of bank G if needed), in the order needed, using basically the same procedure you use to create Songs on the NS3, except the locations include copies of the needed sounds rather than pointers to them. You can similarly name these copies whatever you want (i.e. changing the name from the name of the sound to the name of the song). And if you subsequently need to re-order, you use Organize mode, again, just like you would on the NS3.
So then, what you lose compared to sticking with an NS3 for Song Mode would be...
... you only have up to 112 locations vs. 400, assuming you want to end up with no fewer Program Locations than you had on the NS3. So you could have probably 2 to 4 gigs' worth of set lists in the board instead of more like 8 to 15 gigs' worth. But I think this is fine for lots of people, who don't necessarily need to keep a bunch of old sets readily available, i.e. who just need enough space to hold this weekend's gigs. (You can still always offload used sets to computer backup, to restore them if you need them again in the future.)
... each song has only a single program instead of up to 5. But as discussed above, the fact that you can do so much more within a single NS4 Program means it's less likely that you'll want to use multiple Programs for a song. And for the occasional times you do, you can still use multiple Programs by just placing them adjacent to each other in your Set List (e.g. "UptownFunk1" and "UptownFunk2").
... since each set includes its own independent copy of all the sounds needed, you can no longer change one "base" version of a sound, and have that change cascade to any previously created set lists and other occurrences of the sound in the same set list. Whether that's good, bad, or irrelevant probably depends on how you work.
There's no need to bother with that... the board easily lets you navigate all your Programs in alphabetical order at any time. No routine offline updating needed.
Yes, using a smartphone or tablet is often best, even on the NS3, where you'd probably be able to organize set lists more quickly than you could do it on the board itself, and you'd have a bigger screen presenting lots of song/program titles at once, where you could also select any of them via a screen tap. And as cookie said, you can even do it wirelessly. Also, IIRC, on the NS3, there's no way to copy a song from one song list to another, right? (The board's Copy-Paste function doesn't do that, does it?) That's something else you could do on a smartphone/tablet, that would otherwise require using the Sound Manager on your computer, which isn't a big deal, except for the scenario you mention of possibly having to make changes while at the gig, where you're likely to have your smartphone with you anyway, but not your Mac/PC.freakybeak wrote: ↑31 May 2025, 01:59 Using a setlist manager on the phone does seem to be the best choice. Often the bands I play with don't provide a setlist until the day of the gig, and it sometimes changes in between soundcheck too.
==========
* - ETA: One more nice change... seamless switching now exists between all the sounds within a program instead of only existing when switching panels or programs. So within a single program you no longer have to worry about, for example, the possibility of your piano sound cutting off when you switch to organ. So that's yet another reason why something you might have used two programs for on the NS3 can now be done within a single program.