E.Piano (rhodes)

[soratach]

Hi guys, since Nord still hasn't release new samples for rhodes just yet I was wondering how you guys make existing rhodes sound fat? I'm backing up few bands here and they all have problems with the rhodes sound which I'm really struggling to edit! I want it to sound rather dark with just a bite of attack.

If anyone has some ideas please guide to it. TBH I have NS2 for almost a year and a half and I'm still not on top of it!

Thanks very much!

[soratach]

Hi,
Is it something like that you're looking for ?
The first on is from a real Rhodes :

• Sunlightglasses

This one is from a NS2 :

• rhodes.mp3

Maybe I'm far ! Can you post something to hear the sound you think about ?
Cheers,
Frantz.

[soratach]

@frantz the first mp3 gives 404: not found!!

Personally, I've never played a real Rhodes, but my favorite sound so far is the one I made here: http://www.norduserforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2871 please excuse the demo sample.

[soratach]

There was a "Genuine Rhodes" patch posted in the forum for some time ago, maybe half a year. It is quite good and has plenty of bite which would work in a band setting I imagine. (Edit: here it is: http://www.norduserforum.com/nord-stage ... t4209.html)

I play mostly for myself and via headphones only so your mileage may vary, but personally I find that boosting the mids (enable amp sim, set freq to say 800 and turn up the mid eq) gives a quick bite to the somewhat feeble factory samples. At least with headphones the Leslie sim also works well IMHO, spreading the sound nicely in the stereo field. Leslie also softens the sound quite a bit, so you may want to boost the mids some more when using it to avoid losing all the bite. On the soft but fat side I like the stock patch "Rhodlitzer" which layers Rhodes and Wurlitzer (and a quiet synth in the background). It's admittedly quite far from any real thing so not for purists, but a nice play anyway.

[jazzystu]

Hello. I'm very much a Rhodes-er. I have been playing Jazz Piano/Rhodes for the last 28 years....The Rhodes coming along about 20 years ago.... I'm very familiar with how you set them up to get them to sound right....it's a right old hassle...but more easy than setting up the nord. After some time off, I needed another Rhodes within a week and I just couldn't find a decent Suitcase 88 at a sensible price....in the us, they are sometimes $600 but in the UK, try about £2000...and then probably another £400 sorting it out....I bought a Nord and was initially impressed. This initial excitement has worn off and I am a bit tired of Nord releasing another load of synths and ignoring their frankly crap EP library. The Clavinet is also rubbish....not rubbish sound, but a rubbish keyboard response...it's not the keybed and the weighted action, it's the total shocking shyte of velocity curves on the piano. They are terrible.

Following putting the clavinet through a controller keyboard, I was very excited to feel it almost like my old D6.

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that the EP1 Rhodes Sound is virtually identical to my old Suitcase through Headphones when you play in the middle register. I reckon if you put it though the suitcase cab, it would sound identical. I think the velocity curves are not suitable for the sound. I think this is what's letting it down. The Rhodes seems a lot more sensitive and there is not a curve which suits this.

You cannot polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter. For starters, I binned all the Rhodes Sounds apart from EP1 and EP2. Again, the pervert collector stuff does nothing for me wanting a straight jazz rhodes. You can do quite a good stage piano using the Amp 1, a bit of mid and treble boost and that's about it. The suitcase sound is the problem. For starters, no stereo pan, for seconds, the higher register is just shyte. It really is a non starter. I use no amp sim, but have the EQ mid cranked right up. (Oddly enough on my old suitcase, I'd have both the bass and treble sliders up to do the opposite). Cranking the mid up is one way of doing it. I'd then consider using the leslie sim on stop and playing around with the box sound that gives you and then whacking the whole thing through mid....a bit of compressor does help a bit, but the real Rhodes sound isn't like that.

The bottom line is that it's no good. It's not good enough. I know I should get a Rhodes Suitcase again and spend hours with a screwdriver and mucking around with slidey springs and shimming the action to get it right.....How easy it is to forget!

I remember buying the Nord after reading the following, which I will now lift off their website:-

Late Mk I built in May 1978 and adjusted to ''deep timbre''. The amplitude is set to ''Low''. These settings give the piano a bassy sound with more fundamental than harmonics.

Mk I Suitcase built in January 1975. We optimized the mechanics and adjusted the tines to ''ideal timbre''. The volume adjustment is ''close''.

Reading that, my simple mind assumed that they had got 2 old Rhodes pianos and sampled them, rather like their Grand pianos which I like so much. You know, take a Steinway D, rig it up in a carefully selected room, play around with the furniture, rig up microphones and go through each note at a number of velocities and then again with the pedal down. That's how you go about it.

I think it may have been "Anotherscott" (sorry if it wasn't) who pointed out my ignorance and laughingly pointed the finger and said "Well, of course it's a combination of samples and modelling, what would you expect from a n-Mb file!!!!"

I think in the UK, trading standards would have something to say if this was the case. Following spending years playing and tinkering with Rhodes pianos....of all different models, for me and others, I can frankly say I have never had one respond like either EP1 or EP2. They are bad.

It is high time they ditched the modelling and bullshit and just sampled one properly.....I'd pay £100 for each sample....I'm not bothered, I just want it to be right and I want it to be bang on. This seems possible with the acoustic pianos, but not the Epianos.

Have a go with the EQ and a very small amount of compressor....you can even try layering 2 together. I made quite a good sound by having EP1 with a slow stereo pan, bass and treble boosted, mid cut and then EP2 with mid boost, straight. It made quite a nice chorusy nice sound....Try it and see.

I have tried everything in the book to get it to sound right and I still can't do it. The "samples" are no good and we are overdue some more. I wonder if they will be so big you'll only get 2 on the Stage 2.

There will be a catch. I think the only way Nord will pull their socks up is if someone comes along with a serious competitor. The Korg SV1 is no good either. Nord have proven they can do it with the pianos time and time again. They can also do it with the electric pianos, so why not?

[soratach]

Thanks very much you guys for all the samples, unfortunately havent yet had a chance to try them out, will do as soon as possible!

As for jazzystu, well...couldnt agree more!

I am classically trained and when i bought my NS2 it really did serve my purpose then. Like you said, initially its an incredible machine, even now i still find the functionalities of it being really great on stage.
Sound-wise, well after a while i'm totally bored with most of it....especially the rhodes. I agree that EP 1 is probably the best available, although i'm not a big fan of EP 2, EP 5 i like, for its 'bell-attack'. One thing i find about NS2 rhodes is that it lack colour, even through headphones it still sounding rather dull. I never laid my hands on a real rhodes but heard it live many times, and the dynamic curve is really colourful. I tried a lot of mixtures and i still dont like it that much, i mean its not the end of the world but it can be so much better! Like the piano! The velocity curve and the touching of the keys are perfect for playing piano in my opinion, it feels just like an old Steinway!

For the price of their products I honestly expected a constant updates regularly, on both softwares and samples. They talked about the grand upright during NAMM 2012, here we are mid way of 2013 and it hasnt yet been released. The rhodes are ancient, and will always be. The synth samples are great, i just wish that could actually crank it up as well as the usual 'subtractive' synthesis method, that'd be so much more fun!

I really hope that the new stage will be release soon, and yes i will give it one more try because i like NS2 that much!

[anotherscott]

For the price of their products I honestly expected a constant updates regularly, on both softwares and samples.

Comparably priced boards from other companies don't offer regular software/sample updates. Nord is already way ahead there. But you should never buy a board based on what may or may not come out for it in the future, there are no assurances. For example, even if they come out with new EPs, you might not like them anyway!

[jazzystu]

Wouldn't it be great if they just got an old Stage 88 and whacked it through an amp and sampled it in an ambient manner. No modelling or any crap like that, just warts and all. Same with a suitcase.....Close and Ambient.

Can you imagine how good they would be. Imagine how great the latest grand is and then imagine if that was a fat old suitcase piano from the 70s. Coooor.. It would be awesome...I wouldn't stop playing it for days.

It is barking mad how I expect at least another 4 acoustic pianos and about 6 more synth sample issues before we even get a snifter, which will probably come in the guise of a Rhodes Home Piano, or something equally bollocks.

[muckmuck]

+1, Jazzystu. We'll get some obscure useless sample while we are stuck with a bread and butter rhodes that you cant play an octave and a half above middle C.

[david44tn]

I've been a Rhodes owner and player since around 1975. I presently own a NS2 for performing live. The NS2 Rhodes samples to me are "very good" and about what you can expect from other keyboard manufacturers, probably a little better than some.
What I have a hard time tolerating is the unrealistic volume differences encountered above middle C as mention in this thread.
Vamping with my left hand and with right hand soloing is almost impossible to get the overall sound correct because of this. Just to even out the volumes correctly would be a great improvement and increase the playability of the NS2. Hopefully this can be corrected at some time.

David