Hamm C3 -> 5D organ simulation technical Qs

[Jorvic]

Interesting comments, indeed every console sounds different, I think that's my main point really, the 5D organ is just one from many and why it would be good if a different soundset could be loaded into the engine.

I've already sampled many times my C3 into a hardware sampler and made layers for the two percussion tabs, was easy to do, works just like the real thing. The only downside is each "instrument" is a snapshot of a given drawbar setting, a preset in effect. I was hoping by loading up each tonewheel the 5D might use it's computing power to do the rest. Sounds like it can't.

I was thinking like the pianos the 5D seems able to load up, sure even my upright piano doesn't allow me to turn it into a different piano, but the 5D can, that's the point.

Anyway seems like it's a case of, only the one B3 soundset possible and need to go travel distance to a shop for a demo.

[analogika]

The Demos on their website give a pretty good impression of the basic character.

[cgrafx]

Interesting comments, indeed every console sounds different, I think that's my main point really, the 5D organ is just one from many and why it would be good if a different soundset could be loaded into the engine.

I'm almost positive the Nord hammond engine is not based on a sample set, its an actual digital simulation of the tone wheel generators. Its not something you can just load a different sound into.

[anotherscott]

I'm almost positive the Nord hammond engine is not based on a sample set, its an actual digital simulation of the tone wheel generators. Its not something you can just load a different sound into.

Right, but on theory, it could be possible to load different modeling algorithms, as the Numa and Mojo do. But that would depend on Nord developing alternate algorithms, and also that code in the instrument being replaceable rather than permanently burned into the machine. As far as I know, that's not the case. But who knows what Nord may do in the future...

[formercakid]

I have played and owned most of the Hammond clones. I sold my NUMA Organ 2 to buy the NORD Electro 5. One thing that I have noticed about the NORD Hammond simulation is that the tones are even across the entire 5 octave range. I have found that this is not the case with most of the other clones. When I owned the NUMA Organ 2 I found that the lower end of the keyboard tones were a tad louder than the upper keyboard range. I have owned real Hammonds where the tones across the entire 5 octave range were constant and even.

[Quai34]

True.

On the other hand, my B3 doesn’t give me the option of turning it into a different organ, either.

You’re kind of stuck with either liking the instrument, or selling/not buying it.

Yes, right, so, all the options offered by the newer models, being handy though, won't give you what the real thing in term of true character....You said it, you like your Hammond for its own character or you don't....

[Quai34]

I'm almost positive the Nord hammond engine is not based on a sample set, its an actual digital simulation of the tone wheel generators. Its not something you can just load a different sound into.

Right, but on theory, it could be possible to load different modeling algorithms, as the Numa and Mojo do. But that would depend on Nord developing alternate algorithms, and also that code in the instrument being replaceable rather than permanently burned into the machine. As far as I know, that's not the case. But who knows what Nord may do in the future...

So, the Mojo is basically a PC running a B3 software right? Ditto for the Numa or the HX? Thus, the larger amount of tweakability?

[analogika]

True.

On the other hand, my B3 doesn’t give me the option of turning it into a different organ, either.

You’re kind of stuck with either liking the instrument, or selling/not buying it.

Yes, right, so, all the options offered by the newer models, being handy though, won't give you what the real thing in term of true character....You said it, you like your Hammond for its own character or you don't....

I happen to think that the Nord organs do have character, and I rather like it.

[anotherscott]

So, the Mojo is basically a PC running a B3 software right? Ditto for the Numa or the HX? Thus, the larger amount of tweakability?

Sorry to say, almost all of that is mistaken!

My understanding is that original Mojo is built around a PC (as is their earlier Hamichord); Mojo 61 is not, though they use the same B3 emulation. Numa is not built around a PC. I don't believe HX3 is either.

You can have a lot of tweakability in clonewheels that aren't built around a PC; you can also have clonewheels that are built around a PC that don't have as much tweakability.

Hammond SK series (along with some XK) are very tweakable, and are not built around PC. Although Hammond doesn't offer the switchable "Hammond model" emulations that Mojo and Numa do, Hammond does let you alter the response of each virtual tonewheel. The idea is that, if you own a real tonewheel organ, you can tweak your SK to respond the same way, drawbar by drawbar. Jim Alfredson altered his SK virtual tonewheel settings to make them match his own 1954 Hammond C2. You can download that set into your SK, and you can also tweak the SK to match your own tonewheel Hammond, if you have one (along with a good set of ears and some patience). BTW, I beleieve the Mojo also lets you create your own tonewheel sets... I think Mojo and Hammond are the only "clonewheels" with that feature.

Some Hammond emulations that are not tweakable to that extent, but ARE built around a PC include Garageband and Korg Kronos. So there is no correlation between tweakability and being built around a PC.

[Jorvic]

Thanks for the comments, I'm now overwhelmed! I took a look at the Crumar Mojo and wow that is some sound! Plus it has different console emulations and can somehow load in sounds from my C3. What I'm trying to avoid is just another generic B3 sound. If the 5D claims to be a B3 then it should be possible to tweak it to sound like my C3 or sound very similar.

Quote from above

Hammond does let you alter the response of each virtual tonewheel.

yeh that's what I was looking for.

My jaw dropped when I saw the Tony Monaco A100 comparison test. I then read up on that, maybe the Mojo 61 would suit me better but then if some of the features are removed Then I see the Crumar Rhodes 73.. more wow! Then I see their Gemini product and start to think, are these VSTs in a custom linux box? I am willing to hear the mojo is NOT a VST+linux, not that it matters because it sounds perfect!

So then what is the 5D organ? is that the VST emulation thing too, maybe something similar but not 100% VST? If so the ability to change the B3 console year/version or even edit the virtual tomewheel should be possible. For my use, I think the pianos in the 5D would be perfect but I'd not get the flexibility as the Mojo, but then.. and so on. No one solution