Nord User Forum

[sakari]

Forums forget that they are only a small fraction of users...
Dave Weiser of Kurzweil explained to us how Kurz reacts to feedback: they put much more weight on requests that people make to distributors...he said if we wanted a feature, to talk to the local shop to tell the distributor to tell Kurz. (a rack module was in question (forum enthusiastic, distributors not), also, why they make so many drum programs for the PC, which the forum majority was lukewarm to, but distributors said there was a demand for)....

[jazzystu]

I'd like a "bigger" Rhodes Suitcase and a fatter Clavinet. These would be so simple to do and would truly make the Stage well and truly the best instrument someone could own.

Not trying to be confrontational but, things aren't always as simple as they appear. The cost alone would be a lot more than we probably realize. First, you would have to find an excellent specimen of a 30-something year old instrument. You can't just go down to the pawn shop and buy one anymore. Second, you would then need to book some studio time. Without a good environment and equipment, a good recording is impossible. Next, you would need to process the recordings and create the samples to please everyone. All of this would be a task that is not to be taken lightly. It would be extremely hard to improve on something that is already "brilliant".

I use my NS2 live and if Nord releases a new Rhodes sample, no one in the audience will be able to tell the difference!

The Rhodes which we have are something special already. I was thinking more in the lines of an ambient, loud suitcase. I paid £500 for mine and there was nothing special about it. It was pretty horrible inside, although every note sounded lovely. I agree that "getting" a clavinet is a lot more difficult. However, I'm sure "matey" that Nord uses has the "jig" for pressing the notes right! We have the rough organs on the S2 and the E3/4. It would be nice to have some "rougher" electric pianos.

[anotherscott]

Well, if it's so, they won't get my money. If they had given better keyboard, improved piano and midi-features, I would probably updated my NP to NP2.

Considering what the changes were, I think it's safe to say that the NP2 wasn't designed to appeal to current NP owners, but rather to appeal to probably a much bigger potential market, those customers who might have bought the NP except they needed it to have some additional sounds and splits/layers, like so many other DPs out there. I think it will likely sell better than the NP did as a result, so I think it was a good change to offer. (The only part of the NP2 that I could see really appealing to most current NP owners is the Long Release feature... and I think it's great that Nord was able to offer that to existing NP owners as a free software upgrade.)

As for the keybed, personally, I think the Nord Piano has the best feeling keybed you can get on anything under 50 lbs. I know, that's subjective. It would be nice if it had a third sensor and was more responsive to a thumbnail gliss, though. The problem is, Nord is limited by what Fatar has available, and whatever tweaks they can make within those designs. Since Nord doesn't actually manufacture keybeds, it's the part of the design they have the least control over.

Other than more memory (which everyone always wants, but is expensive), what improved piano features would you have liked, that are not simply a function of creating new piano samples (which don't require a new model, since they can be loaded into existing models)?

I am curious myself about the MIDI functionality of the NP2. There is no manual to download on their web site. Obviously, it is not designed as a MIDI controller. No pitch bend, no mod wheel, no aftertouch, no assignable knobs, and they're probably right that the target market for the NP2 wouldn't want to pay for those things. But, at no hardware cost, it would be good if the two "sections" of the NP2 could be set so that they transmit their key ranges on different MIDI channels. That alone would be enough to provide a lot of flexibility. You'd be able to layer an external sound over "just" your piano area of the keyboard or "just" the sample playback area of the keyboard, or, by creating a preset where the sound for one of these two sections were "blank" in terms of internal sounds, you'd be able to create a patch where a portion of the keyboard consisted only of an external sound. If it does not already do this, that would be a nice enhancement they might be able to provide in an OS update.

[anotherscott]

Think about V-piano for example: it has enourmous potentiality, but Roland hasn't developed it practically at all from its release.

From what I understand, the free "Evolution" upgrade was pretty substantial. But you're right, nobody supports old boards as well as Nord does, except arguably Kurzweil.

Clavia has simply made mistakes with their resent products (C2d excluded). All the others E3HP, NP2, ND, NE4d really suck.

I guess the proof of that will be whether or not the pieces sell well. Personally, while I don't care about drums (though Nord does have some heritage there), as a gigging keyboard player, I think the others you mentioned are all terrific enhancements to the product line. A 24 pound weighted action board with most of the Nord Piano sounds (and then some)? A Nord Piano with splits and layers of other sounds? An Electro 3 with real drawbars and the organ sound of the C2D? Wow! For gigging musicians, I think these are killer boards. And due to their light weight and direct interface, the gigging market has always been a Nord strength, and I think they are continuing to come out with great products for this market.

[Ecaroh]

We are not the majority of users, for sure, but still the group that Clavia should pay attention! This is a critical group of users who really go deep into their products and share the ideas of those. And if you consider buying NP2 for example and make a random google search, I am sure that this Forum is quite high on the list. And even higher if you search for non-commercial comments on their products. So let's not underestimate the power of these ideas - and definitely Clavia should not too.

Another thing is, that isn't the "wise business" always to make us (NP owners for example) to pay for the recent model? Phone companies know it very well: How many of us really need to have a new phone every year or every second year? Still the idea is that we'll update our devices as often as possible. I don't think that Clavia has made "a plan" that "let's forget all those NS2, E3, NP(1) owners and just target the new models to new customers". It would be much much more profitable to release a new NPx which would "force" us to sell our NP's and again give our 2300euros to Clavia. This is how capitalism works...

But of course, I admit that it isn't easy to give revolutionary new models all the time. Maybe Clavia should slow down a bit...

[anotherscott]

Another thing is, that isn't the "wise business" always to make us (NP owners for example) to pay for the recent model?

Hadn't there only been two years (or less) between the shipping of the NP and the NP2? Is there really a big market for people upgrading their multi-thousand dollar boards that often?

And what could Nord have realistically offered in the NP2 that would have made it likely that you would have traded up from your NP1?

Nord does command somewhat of a premium price in the market to begin with... in part, because of their history of ongoing software upgrades for existing models. I think they have done well in that department, giving original NP owners more of what they bought their piano for, at no extra charge (i.e. new piano samples, improved long release feature). Original NP owners did not buy their boards to split and layer, obviously, but I think Nord greatly increases the model's marketability to new customers by now offering those features... while not angering old customers, which would be the downside of offering paradigm-changing models too often. For every customer like you who would react by saying "wow, I can't wait to spend $$$ to upgrade to the new improved model," I bet there would be many more saying "$#!&, I just spent all that money on a new 'upgradable' board, and this frikkin' thing comes out."

Phone companies know it very well: How many of us really need to have a new phone every year or every second year? Still the idea is that we'll update our devices as often as possible.

That's very different, because phones are cheap. That business model would not work if phones were $2,000+. In the U.S. most new phones are very cheap or free, which makes constant upgrade easy. The real thing the sellers are after is to lock you into a two year contract, they're not making money on the phones in the first place. You could hardly pick a more dissimilar industry from keyboards.

Apart from Apple (a special case for numerous reasons), there's probably no company who can expect so many of their existing customers to want to upgrade their high-priced gear every couple of years.

[Hanon_CTS]

What makes us novadays quite critical is the feeling that they do not pay attention to this' forums ideas anymore.

Forums forget that they are only a small fraction of users...
Dave Weiser of Kurzweil explained to us how Kurz reacts to feedback: they put much more weight on requests that people make to distributors...

@JacksonP
I would say that Clavia does pay attention to these forums.
But like prayers to a deity, all prayers are heard and answered, just the answer is sometimes "no".
This doesn't mean you should stop asking, if anything perhaps we should ask more.

@sakari
yes, I quite agree that the distributors are the primary customer of Nord instruments and products.
It's easy for a manufacturer to place more emphasis on the wants and needs of the primary customer because that's where the revenue comes from.

To all,
I think that it's important to remember why we're here on the forums (this is sometimes different).
For me, it's to get help from, and be of help to other like minded musicians.
To share and discuss thoughts and ideas.
To have a sense of fellowship and community with other musicians.
Whether Clavia, or any of the distributors participates here (or not) isn't going to change my forum experience, or level of participation.
Cheers, Hanon

[organut]

@sakari
yes, I quite agree that the distributors are the primary customer of Nord instruments and products.
It's easy for a manufacturer to place more emphasis on the wants and needs of the primary customer because that's where the revenue comes from.

@Hanon_CTS
I am sorry but I disagree completely. The revenue comes from us, the customers, not from the distributers. There is nothing to be distributed if we don't buy.

[Hanon_CTS]

@Hanon_CTS
I am sorry but I disagree completely. The revenue comes from us, the customers, not from the distributers. There is nothing to be distributed if we don't buy.

Do you disagree that this is the situation, or just that this shouldn't be the situation?

I agree that if we stop buying from the stores, the stores will stop buying from the distributors, and so on until impacts Clavia.
I'm also agreeing that when a single customer buys 5000 units of their products, that customer gets more attention than a small group of individuals who have already purchased the product.

I'm not saying that it's right, or even palatable, just a frequent side effect of business.
Cheers, Hanon

[sakari]

People sometimes forget that they dont actually buy the keyboards from Clavia. Clavia sells them to the distributor, who then sells them on...Distributors buy things they think they can sell...this might seem like nit-picking and a question of nuances, but it is the way the system is...