Sample my Rhodes Mk1 before I sell it?

[spradders]

Hi,

In the next month or two I'm buying a Nord Stage 2 (probably the day before they release a Stage 3 knowing my luck...). I need to sell my Rhodes Mk1 73 Stage to fund the Nord purchase.

The question is, before I sell the Rhodes, should I sample it to create a patch for the Nord?

My Rhodes sounds really good, but not perfect - so it has a lot of character and has more variation note-to-note than many samples.

I need to understand:
- Is it worth the hassle
- Is it hard to do
- Would I sample every note, or maybe every note in main 3 octaves and then a few from other octaves
- Is there a simple guide anywhere that states how to do it well

I love this Nord forum - the info here has been absolutely invaluable in helping me choose the Nord. I'll be posting back my own Programs etc as I create them in the coming months.

[azwel]

i think the nord rhodes samples are good enough especially the new ep7. but other people might be interested in hearing your sample though.

[FunKey]

On the one hand, the Stage 2 only supports a single velocity layer for user samples (unlike for the piano samples offered by Clavia themselves). That really limits how realistic a user sample can be, so you probably won't like your sample very much, especially when you compare it with your real Rhodes. On the other hand, you could make a lot of people happy if you do sample it and upload the result.

I haven't sampled any real instruments yet, but I've played with a Rhodes sample created by someone else, so I'll try to offer a little bit of advice:

• In general, the more individual note samples you can choose from, the better. So, even though it would be overkill to spend a lot of time on every note across the entire keyboard, a good first step would be to create a recording where you just play every note for a second or so, one after another. That doesn't take particularly long, and it can be really useful if you need to "fix" something later.
• Regarding the notes that get a more detailed treatment, your idea of sampling every note in the main 3 octaves and a few from the other octaves seems good. For the samples that will be stretched (i.e. that are not in those 3 octaves), I would suggest picking the notes that sound the cleanest, as any "individual character" will become super-apparent when it is no longer "individual".
• Even though the sample can only have a single velocity layer, you should create a few versions of each note, each hit with a different velocity. Then you can later pick the samples that give you a smooth overall response. Because of the single-layer limitation, it makes sense to focus on high velocities, as it is easier to make the sample "softer" than "harder" using the filter of the synth section (which is the only way to add velocity control beyond a simple change in volume).
• If you wanted to do things really professionally, you would probably let each note ring out completely. However, in light of all of the other things I mentioned, looping is probably the least of your problems (as long as you figure out how to do it correctly in the sample editor, which took a while for me). So I'd say that one second per sample is more than enough. Sampling more notes or more velocities would probably be a better use of your time.
• Unfortunately, there is no support for key-release samples in the user sample format, so there is no point in dealing with them (unless you are planning for the future).
• Try to avoid noise in your recording as much as possible. It will quickly build up when multiple sampled notes are played at once. Using a high-quality preamp might make quite a difference (but I don't have a lot of experience in this area).
• If you like, you could upload your recording somewhere before selling the Rhodes, so maybe someone else could create a sample from it and come back with suggestions. (I'd volunteer for that )

[spradders]

Aha, thanks for the replies - it was only today (just after posting above) that I realised the Nord doesn't allow for multiple velocity layer samples - I'm guessing that's a severe limitation. I need to do a little bit of work on the Rhodes before I sell it and I probably won't get around to it for a couple of weeks at least, but I will hook it up and record each note mf / f / ff for a couple of seconds.

Do I then need to split the recording into an individual file for each note (what format, sample rate etc)?

I'd be delighted if you wanted to have a play with creating a sample from the recording, assuming I can get a good enough recording in the first place. Watch this space in a month!

[FunKey]

Yes, the velocity layer thing is probably one of the biggest limitations of the Stage compared to other similar instruments. It almost seems like a deliberate omission. Maybe they will introduce multi-layer user samples in the Stage 3, who knows?

AFAIK, the sample editor only reads .wav files in standard PCM format with a sample rate of 44.1 kHz. It can deal with multiple samples per file (using some kind of silence detection), but assigning them to keys can be difficult unless they are all equally spaced across the keyboard. If you sample each note, I think the easiest way would be to keep everything in a single .wav file (or .flac or whatever), then delete everything but one sample for each note, and save the result in another file.

Looking forward to your recording. (Though I agree, the new EP7 is quite good.)

[analogika]

Single-layer sampling a Rhodes is pretty pointless.

I'm also going to be THAT guy and point out that you will regret selling it, and should seek out every possible alternative that will let you keep it, including saving up some more.

[dynanord]

Hi, thanks for the comment... I haven't used the Rhodes since I restored it 18 months ago, and could really do with the £1000+ towards the Nord. It is a fantastic keyboard, but I don't play much at home (just my little acoustic piano) and the Rhodes is too big to gig. So I think it's time for it to go My wife will be pleased to see it shifted too!
If you're interested in such things, there are some pics here: http://spradbery.com/blog/?page_id=104
Mike.

[Mr_-G-]

Wow, what a superb job!

[Marlowes]

Wow, what a superb job!

[thom0720]

don't sell it, you will regret it for the rest of your life - and truth be told, the rhodes from Nord doesn't even come close to the real thing (have both, so i know)
besides that, it's just a really really nice object to have around, whether you play it or not, and don't listen to your wife, are you crazy. You're a real man, because you once bought and fixed a rhodes, so you keep your rhodes.

sell something else from your house hold and get a cheap used Nord Electro 3 instead of the Stage 2
Selling your Rhodes over a Nord Stage 2 is like selling a Harley and getting a Scooter.