Upgrading from Grand to Stage 4 or Yamaha Montage m8x

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

I'm a Nord Grand owner, and while I love the Nord sounds, I think the key action is bad... I mean, the keys feels good, but the hammers against plastic are so noisy that I actively hate hearing it. Not to mention that I also stongly dislike the angled control panel where I always accidentally turn off the section I'm playing (I know there's a panel lock, but I switch between things too often, and its annoying to always lock/unlock).

Anyway, I was basically 100% on board to trade this in for a Stage 4... After all, I am still in love with the White Grand sound, and I really do want the organ and synth section. The price is high, but with my trade-in, I can probably swing the 88 key for about $3000. Cool...

However, that new Yamaha dropped, and its really amazing. My first workstation was a Motif from around 2001, and I do have a lot of nostalgia for it. This machine, though, is barely recognizable from that lineage.

Lo and behold, my local Guitar Center, which never used to carry any quality keyboards, has both models side by side, and I just got back from playing with both of them.... I'm torn. The stage 4 is exactly everything I was hoping for, but the new shiny object sounds really amazing. What I hoped was going to be the defining feature (the keybed/feel) left me wanting more from both... They both improve significantly from my current Grand, but the Nord felt a bit too light, and the Yamaha a bit too sqishy... I can't really say I absolutely preferred one over the other... They're just different.

So obviosly this is a Stage forum, so I'm guessing that the folks here will be biased toward the Nord. That's fine, but have you ever been tempted away by a competing instrument? Is anyone else considering the new Yamaha? What do you think is better about the Stage 4? For me, its always the immediacy of the controls on the Nord. The stage 4 was on a tilted rack, which is not how I normally play, but I still felt very comfortable finding and adjusting the sounds.

[FZiegler]

There have been both types of guys on the forum as long as I've been a member to this forum in the last 3 years: Some moved to another path, others remained or came back.

But even if this is Stage forum, wouldn't you want to consider a Piano 5? It's on par with the Stage 4 as long as technical evolution is concerned, and it has a very piano like key action - way more than the Stage. It doesn't have a synth built-in, but two sample engines that you can feed with a variety of sounds.

If ever you consider a Motif, Montage or the like - there is no workstation from Nord, and a Stage 4 isn't one, either. Even if it may be the closest from the Nord portfolio.

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

Although I play pianos mostly, the organ and synth sections are such a huge selling point for me. I'm not classically trained, so when I tried out the stage, I found it very playable... just obviously different than the Kawaii action I've been playing with over the past two years. If money wasn't a consideration, I would likely buy both, as I was impressed by different things on each one. The workstation aspect isn't huge for me, as I don't like all of the menu diving and creation... I mostly want to use sounds out of the box and focus more on playing... that being said, that Yamaha has an insane amount of sounds on board, and the polyphonic aftertouch seemed like I would use it more when playing with synths.

I'm probably going to go back to the store with headphones and give each one a deeper dive... I need to play more with the Stage 4 synth section. The Montage synth section is more hands on than previous Yamahas, but you still need to flip between a few pages of parameters. Even as I type this, the immediacy of the Nord controls is making me lean in that direction, despite the >$1000 price difference.

[craigt]

I thought the Nord Grand was supposed to have a premium Kawai action? I got to play both the M8x and Stage 4 88 within the past week. I currently have a Motif XS8 and Stage 3 Compact. To me the new Yamaha action is too light and there’s too much play in the keys. The Stage 4 88 felt okay but I wasn’t expecting to be impressed since I don’t care for the action on the Stage 3 88. So to me both fall short but the Stage probably works for me a little better. Only because of the Motif I had high expectations for the M8x action but it’s way different. I also much prefer the acoustic and electric pianos on the Stage but realize the Yamaha wins most other sound categories.

[Arthr2ShdsJcksn]

Craigt, you're right about the grand having the premium Kawai action...its just that I kind of hate it after playing with it for two years. This might just be a personal quirk, but I like to play with monitors in a small room.. so the sound of the hammers is quite loud and distracting. When I put on headphones the sound isn't noticable at all, and it feels great, but I'm done with it. You are right about that Yamaha action having too much play... Its probably something I could get used to, as is the Stage 4 keybed... However, It's such a priority for me that the first thing I did with the stage 4 is turn the volume all the way down and played hard so that I could hear the sounds of the keys... It definitely passed that test!

[agcohn]

There have been both types of guys on the forum as long as I've been a member to this forum in the last 3 years: Some moved to another path, others remained or came back.

But even if this is Stage forum, wouldn't you want to consider a Piano 5? It's on par with the Stage 4 as long as technical evolution is concerned, and it has a very piano like key action - way more than the Stage. It doesn't have a synth built-in, but two sample engines that you can feed with a variety of sounds.

If ever you consider a Motif, Montage or the like - there is no workstation from Nord, and a Stage 4 isn't one, either. Even if it may be the closest from the Nord portfolio.

Have to second this. If you're mostly a White Grand user, then I think the Piano 5 would be a significant step up from the Stage 4 keybed, while being very different from the Grand.

[cphollis]

I'm a Nord Grand owner, and while I love the Nord sounds, I think the key action is bad... I mean, the keys feels good, but the hammers against plastic are so noisy that I actively hate hearing it. Not to mention that I also stongly dislike the angled control panel where I always accidentally turn off the section I'm playing (I know there's a panel lock, but I switch between things too often, and its annoying to always lock/unlock).

Anyway, I was basically 100% on board to trade this in for a Stage 4... After all, I am still in love with the White Grand sound, and I really do want the organ and synth section. The price is high, but with my trade-in, I can probably swing the 88 key for about $3000. Cool...

However, that new Yamaha dropped, and its really amazing. My first workstation was a Motif from around 2001, and I do have a lot of nostalgia for it. This machine, though, is barely recognizable from that lineage.

Lo and behold, my local Guitar Center, which never used to carry any quality keyboards, has both models side by side, and I just got back from playing with both of them.... I'm torn. The stage 4 is exactly everything I was hoping for, but the new shiny object sounds really amazing. What I hoped was going to be the defining feature (the keybed/feel) left me wanting more from both... They both improve significantly from my current Grand, but the Nord felt a bit too light, and the Yamaha a bit too sqishy... I can't really say I absolutely preferred one over the other... They're just different.

So obviosly this is a Stage forum, so I'm guessing that the folks here will be biased toward the Nord. That's fine, but have you ever been tempted away by a competing instrument? Is anyone else considering the new Yamaha? What do you think is better about the Stage 4? For me, its always the immediacy of the controls on the Nord. The stage 4 was on a tilted rack, which is not how I normally play, but I still felt very comfortable finding and adjusting the sounds.

A few thoughts?

Since you own a Nord Grand, I'm assuming you're not a gigging musician and this is for home use. Against a live band, I don't hear much keybed clacking

This matters, because much of what makes the NS4 magical becomes apparent when you're playing in multiple bands or similar. For me, the workflow of creating sounds, songs and setlists is quite intuitive and wouldn't make me consider someone else's board. The sounds never disappoint, I love the way the latest keybeds feel, the performance controls are great, it looks handsome on stage, etc.

The Montage M lets you get really deep into sound design, for example. If I wanted to do that, I'd use software. Yamaha has great articulated sounds, like pedal steel, bowed violin and similar. They sound great in demos, but I've never found them all that useful in a band context. I'm a huge fan of Yamaha actions in general.

Maybe if I was doing a bunch of studio work and didn't want to use software I'd consider the Montage M. It certainly has a wider range of entertaining sounds, but the Nord will play any sample you have.

If you're OK with spending some money, have you taken a look at the Studiologic SL88? I've played with a NS3C (now NS4C) over a weighted controller for many years, and find it works very well. I only have to control the top board, and I really like having both weighted and unweighted actions at my disposal.

Both are wonderful monster boards, and anyone should be happy with either of them. But for live work, I'm a Nord fan

[taxman]

I sold my NP5 and my Stage3 compact and bought a Stage4 73. I had both of them standing next to each other for a few days. The NP5 has a significantly better keyboard for piano playing. In my opinion it plays more smoothly, although it feels a bit heavier. After comparing, I immediately packed the piano away and only played the stage so that I wouldn't be tempted to keep it.

[cphollis]

I sold my NP5 and my Stage3 compact and bought a Stage4 73. I had both of them standing next to each other for a few days. The NP5 has a significantly better keyboard for piano playing. In my opinion it plays more smoothly, although it feels a bit heavier. After comparing, I immediately packed the piano away and only played the stage so that I wouldn't be tempted to keep it.

I too found the NP5 action delicious. So I kept it, and use it both as a bottom board, as well as for acoustic-type gigs. It's a great instrument.

[docbop]

To me the Montage is as Yamaha calls it a synthesizer, everyone calls it a workstation, but it really a synthesizer. So it's main focus is sound design and rest is secondary. The Stage is a utility knife of a stage keyboard, it cover all the main functions piano AP & EP, organ, synth samples, basic synth, and effects. So the two keyboard have different users in mind, but could be used for performance keyboard. So what is your focus is synth then Yamaha, If performance and need organ, pianos, and synth samples and creation then Nord. I have a Stage 3 and I think the Yamaha YC is more of a apples to apples comparison. Now I'm not considering the keybeds in this comparison, keybeds are too personal of a decision.

I'm kind of going through the same and thinking of selling my Stage 3, but what to move too. I've decided not to go to a Stage 4 partly price, but more of what I do is just AP, EP, synth samples so a lot of whats on a Stage 4 I wouldn't be using. Also thinking of the Yamaha YC and CP and Nord Piano 5. My issue with CP and Piano 5 is the effects and how they are routed isn't has nice as on the YC and Stage. So it's not an easy decision and haven't even talked about sounds or keybeds.