Nord Grand vs Kawai + software?

[keytarjunkie]

Hey, I'm new to the forum and hoping for some advice. I am a professional pianist with a background in jazz. Over the past 14 years I've owned the Electro 2 73 and Electro 4D 61 for gigging and have loved the sounds and build quality from Nord. I'm currently without any keyboards, I have a Roland RD-2000 provided to me at work which is very powerful but frustrating to use. Anyway, now I'm looking to purchase an instrument for home use. I would like to buy a real grand but don't have the space or budget right now, and would like something I can easily hook up to a computer. I will probably also purchase another Electro series for organ and gigging in the future (if the live gigs ever return )

The Nord Grand is often compared to the Kawai MP11SE, and I agree with the general consensus that the Kawai samples are a step behind the Nord samples. Kawai also produces the VPC1 which is solely a MIDI controller with their top action. The cost difference between the VPC1 and the Nord Grand is huge enough that I could also purchase a whole computer and software like Ravenscroft 275 and still come out ahead. And if I am going to get another Electro eventually, then I'll be able to use the VPC1 as a controller for the Electro and access the same samples I'd get on the Grand, no? Perhaps with less polyphony?

Curious to hear what others have done in this situation. I've enjoyed reading some of the other topics here. If I said anything stupid, please pardon my ignorance.

[ryanhardo]

Hey there keytarjunkie,
I think to find out if thats a decent solution to play you have to research how good a midi controller works with VSTs f.e. Ravenscroft 275.

Can you control everything you want with a midi controller? (Can you assign buttons to change the sound, effects etc.?)
How to properly setup midi controller, VST and computer?
Also can you store your settings that easy that you just plugin all devices and start playing or are there some workarounds?
How often do you have to edit those settings? (f.e. after an update)
How long will the VST be supported?
Will it work with future OS for free or did the VST developers claim money for OS changes? (f.e. apple changed their macOS quite radical not by looks more by architecture so I had to buy several software (non VST) again or pay for an upgrade to continue using it with the latests macOS - sure you can stay on the older software version but security wise thats a rather unwise decision. Also you miss out on some features).
What soundcard and system specs does a capable computer need and costs to work properly with a VST (no lags, hickups, fast loading - those sample often are typically several GB big so RAM should be plenty available on you computer, at least 16 GB)?

Sure you can save money but you have to be able to accept workarounds and maybe some limitations f.e. I read some time ago that Keyscape won't support pedals (I didn't know if that info is dated by now).

IMHO VSTs sound very nice but right now there are to many questions and possible or necessary workarounds. When I switch on my second hand 10+ year old Yamaha Motif XS it just works. I really doubt that any VST last that long and can just switched on like that. I'm saying this from my point of view as a IT guy. Maybe I'm wrong and there is a perfect solution for all of this.

I think it much depends on if you want to experiment with that kind of setup or want an instrument which you just switch on and start playing but probably cost more and has some limitations as well.
In the end - there is no 'jack of all trades' although we live in 2022. Every solution has its advantages and disadvantages.

[ziozeus]

Dear

mp11se / vpc1 keyboards are on another lever compared to mp7se and nord grand ones.
The first are wooden, with long pivots. They are regarded as the pinnacle of the piano like actions.
Graded, wooden, with let-off, pianolike.
They are heavy and barely moveable, so good for static home use.

Then there's the mp7se, plastic, graded, with let-off simulation (the same action is in the kawai ES8 and ES920)
In my opinion (but I would say objectively) the Nord Grand action comes technically a step behind.
It's the kawai mp7se action with even weight (not graded and generally way softer, maybe soft as the higher keys in the mp7se), without let-off and with a harder end of stroke.
I've had both and while what I write above is technically true, at the end the Nord feels better because of the better velocity curves implementation and the harder stopper. Not to mention the sounds.
But it could have been better would it have been graded like the mp7se.
The let-off is not even worth bothering about.

Regarding the use with external VST, please note that as written eslewhere here in the forum, the triple sensor midi data are not sent by the nord grand, and this is kind of a let down.
I don't know about the other keyboards in this regard.

cheers
Alessandro

[keytarjunkie]

Thanks both of you, you've given me a lot to think about. There are definitely benefits of both systems, with the Nord being a real complete package with excellent samples, and the Kawai VPC1 offering a great keybed but requires some more effort to start making music. I'll do some research on VSTs and I will try to find somewhere I can try out both keyboards in person and make a decision.

[Tasten-Bert]

Hi keytarjunkie

and a very warm welcome to this wonderful forum. I have after some long testing made out the Kawai VPC1 as my favourite piano keybed controller and am already saving the money for it. I guess it‘ll be a good combination with one of the apps Ravenscroft or Colossus Piano on my iPad along with my electro 5D 61 which I love for its organ and piano sounds. Maybe this helps you.

Cheers from Germany

[anotherscott]

The Nord Grand is often compared to the Kawai MP11SE

The Nord Grand action is closer to that of the MP7SE than the 11SE, the Nord Grand sounds are probably about equally similar to/different from both of them. So the better comparison is to the 7.

Kawai also produces the VPC1 which is solely a MIDI controller with their top action.

The MP11SE action is probably a notch better than the VPC1, but that can also be subjective.

if I am going to get another Electro eventually, then I'll be able to use the VPC1 as a controller for the Electro and access the same samples I'd get on the Grand, no? Perhaps with less polyphony?

Yes, the Electro 6 will give you the same samples as the Nord Grand (with same polyphony), playable from your external controller.

Other than the Nord Grand or some Kawai, the only other boards I think of as really above average in both piano sound and piano action, and with a nice direct interface are probably Yamahas. A CP88 might be another model worth taking a look at, for example. But while I've played numerous Kawais and Nords, I haven't played the exact models you're looking at.

[MalcolmH]

I was after a Nord Grand after selling my Stage EX for something with a better keybed. I got fed up waiting and purchased an MP11SE. Id be surprised if that didn't keep you satisfied until you saved for an acoustic grand. The keybed is fantastic. Its a little squishier at the bottom than the Grand (and my old EX). Im getting used to it now and Im beginning to really enjoy it after a couple of weeks playing. Also think about the UI. Im sure that I was getting to grips with my Ex after an hours read of the manual and then just playing around. Its all very intuitive and immediate. The Kawai in comparison is awful (to me anyway). The manual is badly written and the features are stuck behind a horrible menu based system. Im pinning for the immediacy of the Nord.

I think the Nord uses higher quality panel components than the Kawai as well, had the EX over ten years with no problems (although only light playing). The push buttons on the Kawai for example dont inspire confidence.

[M1tsos]

Hello i am in the same position you are for months… at january i bought a nord grand because i didnt like much the keybed action on my stage 3 88 ha

The nord grand action is a lot closer to a real piano compared to my stage 3.. before i decide to buy the nord grand i was thinking about the vpc 1 or mp11 also.. but the weight was a big problem for me because i want my instrument to be able to moved for gigs so 29kg on vpc1 and 34kg for mp11 is 2 much if you add a case for them too…

About the vpc i read somewhere that only the white keys are wooden the black are not wood (i dont know if it is true)

As for the nord grand there are many pros and cons for me..

I love the action feel while playing i even like a lot the triple sensor because helps a lot in pianissimo playing etc and it seems like having better dynamic range and headroom compared to stage 3 while i test that a/b with the same xl piano sounds.. the same piano xl samples (royal grand 3d and white grand) sounding more realistic to the nord grand because of the keybed

I dont like that the nord grand is a bit restricted and limited compared to piano 5 which is cheaper.. i dont like that the keybed has some space between some keys and the whole keybed is not tight enough ( you can check my video on youtube about it ) it makes me feel that after time playing it will have problems.. makes me feel unsecured about it.. many people having a nord grand confirmed me that what i showed in my video about the keybed is exist also on their keybed.. i now sent my video to thomann and asked them to check the kawai mp7 if it has the same loose and space keys.. because i still dont know what to do… i also struggle a lot with the case .. i dont know what case to buy if i keep the nord grand… the soft case from nord is 11kg plus 21kg the nord grand is 32kg in total plus some cables and triple pedal we go to 35kg for sure.. i dont know if i will be able to lift it and put it to the back of my car..

So what to do at the end?? Or what everyone of you who read my post will you do in my place??

Buy the grand?? Buy mp7 which is 1/3 of the nord grand price?? Or stay with my nord stage 3 and wait more untill something new comes up??

By the way thomann’s technician emailed me back that even kawai mp7 keybed has the same space between some keys and the same untight loose exacly like nord grand

[maurus]

Hi keytarjunkie,

the VPC1 + Nord Electro combination works great for home use, I am using it on a daily basis (with an Electro 5D) alongside my acoustic grand since several years. IMO there is only one drawback from a pianist's perspective: While the 5D supports the Kawai's triple pedal and sostenuto works great, there is no half pedaling (as you would have it with the Nord Piano or the Nord Grand). Depending on whether you are relying on half pedaling a lot this may be an essential drawback.

Other than that I find the VPC1's keys are a treat for playing the Nord's sounds (and I have no problems switching from the acoustic to the VPC1/Electro combo and back). Of course to have both the VPC1 keys and the waterfall keys on top is an added bonus if you want to use organs or samples as well.

To my ears the Nord piano sounds also beat the MP11/MP7 SE onboard sounds.

PS. You wouldn't take the VPC1 for gigging - too heavy. Just take the E5D and leave the VPC1 at home

[derrellpiper]

I once tried a Piano 3, and then swapped it for a Stage 3, and then left Nord for an MP11SE. It's heavy, but it plays like a piano. The samples are nice and I use them, but third party samples like Galaxy Instruments (Native Instruments compatible) can sound better depending on what you want. The other keybeds I would try are the StudioLogic SL88 Grand, and the Kurzweil PC4. The MP11SE is good if you just want a piano. I also like the feel of the Korg SV-2 88, it's not Grand weighted, but it feels nice and sounds fantastic, try them all if you can.