Nord in a Grand Piano Case?

[LewTheKeysGuy]

OK, this is is a bit of a mad idea...

today, I had to go to a meeting, mum with me, matters to do with medical legal issues surrounding my dad's death. Anyway, on the way back, we walked through this shopping centre, There's a grand piano in there, battered to hell, sounds awful, action's lousy. you couldn't do anything truly classical, sounds more like a toy piano than a true baby grand. I started playing a few pieces from my choral performances for Christmas, yep, weird for me to do that. Whilst playing, mum made me aware of a gentleman leaning up against a shop window, hands over his face and then straightened himself up. I'd finished about 3 pieces, a little annoyed that this piano was just basically fit for the fire. the fact the shopping centre had been conned by a previous person for the sale of a piano and I was asked to go in and assess / repair where possible, told them it was a write off and to get some funding for something decent. well, they didn't listen, got rid of the old one, replaced it wish something just as bad, but playing a bit better. a large number of key laminates had been broken off, etc

anyway, Mum and I walked past this gentleman, now I have a white cane in my hand, this gentleman was stunned and puzzled. He was talking about how his family were involved in music including his daughter, but he was so moved by the pieces I was playing. That in turn, moved me to think that someone could react in that way to romantic choral repertoire. even if I was fighting this piano.

ok, here's where I move from the above to an idea, I might probably set off a number of people wanting to do similar, or make a new craze...

I had been thinking for some time about finding an old baby grand, gut it out, install a nord stage 3, nord Piano 4 or something like that as the replacement to the keybed, remove the casting, etc and form a sound board with an amp module and speakers positioned in such a way,, but before that, sand it back completely (the old piano), then treat it to the nord finish and install the piano or suitable unit inside.

what would you think to this? same applies to an upright, etc?

just think of the pianos being left abandoned, abused, etc, not worth restoration de to the immense costs involved, but at the same time, renovating them and giving them class. you wouldn't know it was a true acoustic grand unless the lid was open to see speakers, or you came to the piano front to see the controls, etc.

anyone think I'm mad. it's just something embedded in me.

I'm aware people have done this with cheaper digital piano modifications, but not as daring as this?

any thoughts.

lew

[pablomastodon]

This is common practice by a great many international touring acts. Nord instruments are stuffed into old Hammond cases, Wurlitzers (Nordlitzer), uprights and grands. Many of these are mock-ups cobbled together by set designer carpenters, but it's so much easier to simply repurpose an existing garbage instrument.

[Schorsch]

I like this idea very much, thought about this also a couple of times but have not had the time yet available to start such a project. From my point of view the most challenging part would be to integrate an amplification into the piano housing which should sound at least brilliant

[LewTheKeysGuy]

There's a series of factors to look at...

1: extraction of the entire sound board casting, strings, etc.
2: extraction of the original piano action, etc.
3: conversion of the pedals to work as a single triple pedal (solution most obvious is to reconstitute a nord triple pedal for sensors, etc as well as the data cable and adapt to the original pedals (give them a good polish)
4: restructuring the internals to support the stage 3 / piano 4 or suitable.
5: creating a new sound casement and configuring porting for cones,
6: installing an amplifier module and selecting suitable cones / tweeters - taking care not to go too high on amplification due to resonance and sympathetic tones from the actual piano body,
7: enhancements to the case for grouped power, so that both the instrument and amp turn on together.

One of the noticeable issues here would be the piano lid, as the lid itself in virtually all grands is dowel mounted as a pivot, one of the major issues is accessibility to controls. unless the front casement was modified in such a manner that the lid and name plate (front column) could either be replaced by something more functional, or to take a nord piano and undo it's front plate, mount it in such a way that it becomes the front support, etc.

yep, there are some challenges, but worthwhile ones.

getting the finish right is one such challenge, unless you knew someone who dealt with spray work, had a booth to do the work, etc.

This is a challenge I'd love to take on.

If only you could condense the logic boards, etc of a nord piano or stage in to something more compact, like a rackmount version, then you could install that directly and find a suitable midi keyboard with action to do so. for me it's more of wanting a nord system to go in a functional case..

ah, it's just dawned on me, I am missing the plot lol

adapt the piano lid by putting support sliding rails behind it with bracing, this means that you could rather than fully lift, you could slide it back, it lifts and you have access to the nord's controls without any such tampering with the original instrument.

If
Here's a question then. considering current piano libraries, what is the bare minimum Nord Piano I could get away with or nord stage, which would support a few XL grands, etc? if I could find one used for a fair price in the not too distant future, this could be doable.

lew

[SteveNordP3]

My nephew who tours quite a bit tells me your idea is carried out on stages all the time. No one wants to haul a grand around, tune it twice a night, maintain it, etc...just shove a Nord in a grand case - no one is the wiser!

I love this idea but hate the amount of work it would take to remove the harp, strings, action, etc. And no matter how good a speaker system, you really need a subwoofer to rumble the low end like you can with a concert grand. But if in a permanent amplified installation like a church or a pub - it’s a brilliant idea!!

For home, I’ve fantasized for a while about contacting someone with the skills to build a more abstract home case that reminds you of a concert grand but isn’t. A piece of furniture you could use as a buffet table and not freak out that someone is killing your $100 grand grand piano....a creative carpenter/cabinet maker could envision funky shapes reminiscent of the shape of a grand but take some license with creativity. Even a more squared/triangled box like an old harpsichord would be fun - or go funky with the look of a staircase on its side....If only I had the talent!!!

[LewTheKeysGuy]

My nephew who tours quite a bit tells me your idea is carried out on stages all the time. No one wants to haul a grand around, tune it twice a night, maintain it, etc...just shove a Nord in a grand case - no one is the wiser!

I love this idea but hate the amount of work it would take to remove the harp, strings, action, etc. And no matter how good a speaker system, you really need a subwoofer to rumble the low end like you can with a concert grand. But if in a permanent amplified installation like a church or a pub - it’s a brilliant idea!!

For home, I’ve fantasized for a while about contacting someone with the skills to build a more abstract home case that reminds you of a concert grand but isn’t. A piece of furniture you could use as a buffet table and not freak out that someone is killing your $100 grand grand piano....a creative carpenter/cabinet maker could envision funky shapes reminiscent of the shape of a grand but take some license with creativity. Even a more squared/triangled box like an old harpsichord would be fun - or go funky with the look of a staircase on its side....If only I had the talent!!!

Yep, I know it's been done before, been there for theatre jobs where a theatre director didn't like the fact my setup was based on a korg 01W ProX, M1, case of various modules, so instead told me that his stage designer wanted to build a grand case. I told him exactly where he could go with that idea, so instead discussed a different design concept which worked better. it meant my gear could lift out and go, but as far as everyone else was concerned it was a real upright.

I am spending time with a chap who's a cabinet maker, he's helping me with new studio furniture, between us things are just about completed on build and finish. believe it or not, we discussed this idea, he tells me that the way around this is sheets of plywood or MDF even, plan the shape, cut the main forms, the sides can then be cut and bent, glued, stitched with carcassing, etc.

believe it or not, the issue of a sub is not a problem. if you think of using studio reference monitors of certain sizes, where a sub isn't needed because the bass harmonic frequencies are enough to register the lowest harmonics of a grand, it's a question of positioning, surface reflection, etc. anything is possible. Look at how manufacturers like Roland build their LX series and GR series digitals, their sound frames are based on a series of tweaters, woofers, etc of particular sizes without the need of a full sub, yet from an acoustic amplification principle, it would equal if not be above that of an acoustic grand in dB reference.

as to you saying you couldn't. no such thing. be daring, be driven, never say you can't do something, life's about taking the bull by the horns and showing people who's boss. the boss, is you. so, achieve anything and everything you want to. I learned that lesson and with that, I intend while I'm still on this earth for god knows how long or short a time I have left, to do everything I want. It's hard work, but not to be given up on.

lew

[SteveNordP3]

Lew - I just couldn’t love your philosophy more!

Perhaps I should say even in my beyond-middle-age I’ve not yet learned or practiced the art of cabinet making....

Good on you!
Steve

[Rusty Mike]

There are companies out there who make faux piano shells to fit digitals in. I don’t recall the names of the builders, but they do exist. For what I recall, the shells are lighter than real piano bodies, and disassemble for transport.

[Spider]

Something like this?
https://www.resonancepiano.com/

It's an Italian company which makes this resonance body for digital pianos in resonant wood from Val di Fiemme (the wood Stradivaris and most top acoustic instruments are made of), which vibrates and amplifies the sound like a real acoustic piano, without the use of any speakers.

No idea how much it could cost, quite a lot I'm afraid...

[SteveNordP3]

Found these interesting options...

Piano shells

Keyhole Mobile Grand Piano https://www.keyholeshells.com/mobilegrand.html
Piano Shells for your Keyboard! Unlimited Design Options! https://planbpianos.com/
Dutchgrand | Dutchgrand is the No.1 producer of portable baby grand piano-shells. https://dutchgrand.com/product/