Sending MIDI transpose signal

[jrcornelisse]

Hi all,

Just setting up my Nord Stage 3 together with my good old Yamaha Dx7s, and almost have everything working. I am able to use the Dx7 as a controller (using dual keyboard controlling my Nord panel B via the external keys), changing programs on my DX7 and changing volume of the Dx7 (for example setting it to 0 if I use the Dx7 as Dual Kb function).

Probably this is more a Dx7 rather than a NS3 topic, but let's give it a try.. In some programs, I use a transpose on my Nord. Playing the dx7 as a Dual kb, it transposes as well via the Midi transpose options, BUT - if I want to use the internal sounds of the Dx7, the DX7 needs to be transposed as well. Does anyone know which signal (Midi users I guess?) to send to the DX7 to get it transposed? Thanks!

[anotherscott]

There is no MIDI CC command for transpose. (When you use the Nord's MIDI transpose, it is not sending a transpose command, it is instead shifting each note as you play.) So you'll have to transpose the DX7 with its own buttons.

[jrcornelisse]

Hi Scott, thanks for the quick reply! Well - thats a pity... does that mean, it is NEVER possible, also not via MainStage or whatever external program, to shift the transpose setting of any connected instrument via Midi?

[23skidoo]

You can set "transpose MIDI AT" to OUT in the MIDI settings menu, but according to the manual:

When set to In, any active transpose value (global and/or set per program) will not be applied to the outgoing MIDI stream, but only to incoming MIDI data. If set to Out, any active transpose value will affect sent MIDI notes but not incoming ones.
Range: In (Default), Out

This means you'd lose the ability to play the transposed NORD via the DX7 (but it would still internally transpose) BUT your DX7 when played from the NORD would get the transposed note values via MIDI.

Since MIDI does not support the notion of transpose (it is considered the responsibility of the sending device) and most keyboards don't implement transpose via CC (although they may by SysEx, which is rather more advanced concern than simply linking two boards together), your only option is to change the notes you send to the DX7 directly. The Nord can decide to transpose on input or on output, but not both (this makes sense, since input passes through to the output in some cases, and trying to make exceptions would rapidly become incredibly complicated depending on the setup, the soft thru options, etc.

[RichardG]

does that mean, it is NEVER possible, also not via MainStage or whatever external program, to shift the transpose setting of any connected instrument via Midi?

Maybe something creative, by setting local off on the DX and looping MIDI out -> through Mainstage -> back to MIDI in ?

There's an active DX user-group on Yahoo.
Maybe someone can help you out there.

[anotherscott]

Hi Scott, thanks for the quick reply! Well - thats a pity... does that mean, it is NEVER possible, also not via MainStage or whatever external program, to shift the transpose setting of any connected instrument via Midi?

Kind of. It cannot be done with any standard MIDI CC command. It's possible that a particular manufacturer/board could implement its own MIDI transpose function (e.g. via sysex as 23skidoo said), but I couldn't tell you which boards have done that (and it would be a different command for every manufacturer, if they support it at all). Using something like Mainstage adds another possible approach though... as Richard G was saying, you should be able to run a board in Local Off mode, play it into an external device (i.e. laptop/iPad/iPhone), have the external app do the transposition, then send the MIDI back out to the originating keyboard. It would "feel" like you're playing the board with its transpose engaged, though it would actually be the app doing the note shifting in real time.

[maxpiano]

as Richard G was saying, you should be able to run a board in Local Off mode, play it into an external device (i.e. laptop/iPad/iPhone), have the external app do the transposition, then send the MIDI back out to the originating keyboard. It would "feel" like you're playing the board with its transpose engaged, though it would actually be the app doing the note shifting in real time.

+1, that's the approach I'd recommend too, if you are using Mainstage (or any similar application) to manage your setup

[jrcornelisse]

Hi all, WoW, great to get respond from people with midi knowledge, its great to be able to get these kind of questions answered! Thanks a lot for that, also writing it down in an understandable manner.

Sounds like the mainstage/ external software option can fix it. Perhaps I should dig in mainstage, but using only an iPad in a gig is also Nice
A griend of mine uses https://www.lab4music.it/sipario.php?lang=EN. It says to be able to set transpose settings, and I guess it Will be done via a different protocol as Richard mentioned. Thanks all for helping out!

[maxpiano]

Hi all, WoW, great to get respond from people with midi knowledge, its great to be able to get these kind of questions answered! Thanks a lot for that, also writing it down in an understandable manner.

Sounds like the mainstage/ external software option can fix it. Perhaps I should dig in mainstage, but using only an iPad in a gig is also Nice
A griend of mine uses https://www.lab4music.it/sipario.php?lang=EN. It says to be able to set transpose settings, and I guess it Will be done via a different protocol as Richard mentioned. Thanks all for helping out!

On the iPad you can do the same using apps like Camelot Pro, iMidiPatchbay, KeyStage, ... of course you will need a proper MIDI interface, like the iConnectivity ones (or a combination of USB3 adapter+USB Hub + USB MIDI interface), to connect both the NS and DX7 to it at the same time.

[jrcornelisse]

On the iPad you can do the same using apps like Camelot Pro, iMidiPatchbay, KeyStage, ... of course you will need a proper MIDI interface, like the iConnectivity ones (or a combination of USB3 adapter+USB Hub + USB MIDI interface), to connect both the NS and DX7 to it at the same time.

Thanks Max. Although it would be a bit dissapointing for the Nord engineers as they spent a lot of time in the extern session, I think this might be the best option. I have been searching on the forum already to find proper iPad connection possibilities and iPad software- any threads/topics on the forum which help me a bit further here?