how many velocity layers do the pianos have?

[ZeroZero]

I was wondering how many velocity layers(per key) do the pianos have? I presume that the lack of memory means only a few? Are all pianos the same? I mean small medium large, bright, steinway etc?

[mon8169]

It's a secret, but I supose they have just one velocity layer. The different timbres are obtained with a very smart code depending on the velocity.

On the other hand you have pedal up and pedal down samples, but this has nothing to do with velocity.

Ramon

[Ecaroh]

Just one velocity layer? Hard to believe that. In fact they are speaking about "amount of velocity layers" in their site, so you would expect to at least some. Those who can send exact velocity values with some midi keyboard (for example my Roland RD could send "fixed" velocities) can make this test: play some note first with velocity 1 and then 2,3,4,5,6,7... This test usually reveals those velocity layers if they aren't smoothed or morphed some way.

[Johannes]

can make this test: play some note first with velocity 1 and then 2,3,4,5,6,7... This test usually reveals those velocity layers if they aren't smoothed or morphed some way.

Definitively more than one velocity layer. But this test could be a nice one, maybe I'll try it with a DAW when I get back to my NS. Although it might be difficult wo distinguish layers from the volume increase and most importantly, the other tricks and manipulation going on under the hood to keep such a great Grand Piano under 50MB.
Also, I would be curious to know about the exact looping implementation of the samples.

EDIT:
Just found this great website on testing Digital piano sounds (called THE DIGITAL PIANO BS DETECTOR or DPBSD for short):
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthre ... hread.html

Have not yet tried it but it seems they have not yet recorded any Nords so might be a good starting point to do a proper analysis of the Nord Piano Samples. Will have a look at it when I have some time

[ZeroZero]

Interesting thread now, but no answers?

A secret? got something to hide?

[ZeroZero]

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthre ... ost1515962

[Frantz]

Interesting thread now, but no answers?

A secret? got something to hide?

Knowing the number of layers would not mean a lot.
Is 127 velocity layers enough ? for what ?

Sound is important.

Kronos => sample based, 7 Velocity layers
SuperNAtural (Jupiter80) => sample based, no velocity layers
Roland V Piano / Pianoteq => emulated, no velocity layers
Roland RD 700 => sample based, 4 layers

I really think this number, alone, is more marketing than meaningfull.

[Johannes]

+1, still interesting to know.
Add to your list
Kurzweil's Triple Strike (3 velocity layers)
Casio Privia (at least the less expensive ones): 4 velocity layers.

@zerozero: Ah right, so they already did it, sounds really a great info on the AP sound aspects, thanks for posting it!!!
EDIT: Yould be nice to run the test with a E3, NS and NS2 to see the difference in decay, or of different sample sizes...

Visual and audible evidence in the Steinway of 4 to 7 layers; the Yamaha is smoothly blended.

(from the Nord Piano Analysis on the number of velocity layers of hte Nord Piano NSMPs)

[ZeroZero]

Yes Audiobird I do see your point, your right, too many layers would be trivial in some cases. But what if its two layers, or three? Maybe to save memory size? Yes there is a lot too it, bit rate, orginal sample, original piano (close miking distant etc), sound board miking, ambient mikes, reverb morphing and modelling counts for a lot too.
I would of thought that to capture the nature of a wooden object, one would have to use samples, but my favorite resonance in a virtuasl paino is from TruePainos
this is not a sampled or a modelled piano, but a hybrid. God knows how they do it, but for me this approaches an ideal, rather that capturing a real piano with its quiirky ideosynchacies. I think its stunning to listen to and a gas to play too. I just love it and so far (only bought the stage 2 a couple of days ago) I am not torn away from it by the Nord stuff.

I see it a bit like recording vocals, yes trhere is a 'right' method ( take out rthe uneccessary eq, listen in the mix, listen out of the mix) but after applying the method its about the unique voice and what your ears like.

[Frantz]

Thank you for talking about TruePianos ZeroZero.
I tried TruePianos by 4Front a long time ago (I was using fruity loops) ... and just gave it again a try, because you mention it ... and ...
I have no sufficient practice on it of course, but first impression, it sounds very good to my ears too.
The sound, the size, the settings, the overall feeling ... I think its a very good competitor as well !