NS2EX and NE3 perfect midi setup?

[1000Keys]

Hi,
at the moment I develop a certain degree of headache, sitting over the problem of how to configure MIDI in my live setup with NE3 and NS2EX 76 HP.

I like the NS2EX 76 HP keybed for e.g. (E-)Piano ballads, but fast'n'funky clavinets or dynamic E-Piano chords are way easier to realize with the NE3 73 keybed. Even with NS2 dynamic curve set to #4 it seems that I cannot get the punchy attack on the EPianos (eg playing fast chords) as with the NE3 (even using the identical sound via midi on the NS2...). By the way, is there a graph depicting the NS2EX's dynamic curves somewhere?

My requirements:
1) NS2 mainly for (E)Pianos, Left Hand Organ, Synth Pads, Layers of these etc. and controlling NE3 patch changes
2) NE3 mainly for
a) NE3 sounds in addition to the NS2
b) playing NS2 synth sounds via MIDI (fast lead lines, maybe right hand Organ, clavinet etc.)

Is there a perfect way to setup the MIDI channels and a consistent way of programming sounds, so that one can get all this without having to switch MIDI channels on the NE3 all the time during a gig? How would I have to setup the menu options in MIDI and Extern menu on the NS2? (I already read the MIDI tutorial from this forum, but it didn't say much about this setup with a MIDI slave which would be used as a Sound Module and a second manual at the same time (or better: switching the slaves intended function from song to song). I got a knot in me brain already... sort of MIDI noob here

[RedLeo]

Never mind.

[1000Keys]

Never mind.

Ok, I won't

Maybe my question was a bit complicated, so I try to make it easier to understand:

How do you setup your Nord Stage 2 (EX) midi-wise with a second keyboard for live gigging? Any tricks / best practices on midi channel setup?

Cheers,
Lars

[RedLeo]

The reason I deleted my post was that you added another thread where you specified that you needed the onboard sounds to be operated by the Stage's pitch wheel when the notes were being triggered externally from the NE3, which made my original answer wrong for your purposes, that's all.

In that thread, it seemed you had found the answers you were looking for, so I didn't think there was anything more to do. If there's anything more that I can help with, let me know what it is.

[For example, did you figure out how to send Program changes to the NE3?]

[1000Keys]

Hi RedLeo,

wow, thanks for multithreading my forum entries!
(I just pictured you sitting in front of 5 huge screens, having 20 tabs open, following the forum posts like Tom Cruise followed crime in Minority Report )

You are right, the other thread was similar to some extent, but I already learned that the pitch bend can only bend the NS2 sounds (if triggered from the slave device) via slot/global/instrunment midi channel and not via DualKeyb (oh lord, why?).

In this thread I wanted to learn if there are best practices for live setups with NS2 as master and a second device, apart from using DualKeyb (or maybe with some mixed use per program of DualKeyb and Global/Slot/Instrument MIDI settings) as slave. I started programming some songs/sounds for our band setlist. I noticed that sometimes I would have the sounds that I would trigger from slave on only one slot (preferably Slot B), so that I can set NE3 to the MIDI channel that is configured for that slot in the NS2. But then again, in the next program I would like to trigger e.g. a more complex synth sound from the NE3 using slot A&B synth engine on the Stage. I only found a solution to this by switching MIDI Channels on NE3 and/or NS2, but between two songs thit is notvery desirable. So I wondered if you guys with your experience have any tricks you use for such problems.

And yes, I can use the NS2 Extern section to send program/cc change etc. to the NE3, so that I am able to switch programs on the NE3 and/or set the volume to zero or layer it with the triggered sounds of the NS2 as desired, on program load.

[1000Keys]

Unfortunately the reply is not so simple. The Stage's MIDI implementation is a weird mixture of global and programmable settings and there is no "one size fits all" solution. I think the main thing to accept is that there will be limits on your choices because you will end up with too much manual switching of settings to be practical. Obviously you've basically figured this out yourself, so you're not really missing anything essential that will give you more flexibility.

Using the Stage in its "Instrument" mode - ie setting every sound engine to receive on a different channel - is the mode that gives you maximum flexibility, but unfortunately this relies on the secondary keyboard having some fairly powerful MIDI features itself - which the NE3 doesn't have.

Unless you're willing to go the route of adding external MIDI processing gear to give your setup the flexibility to change MIDI channels all over the place, I think you just have to accept that you won't be able to do everything you might wish.

Obviously you could take advantage of the fact that the dual KBD mode is programmable, but your need to play a sound externally while pitchbending limits the usefulness of this option. If you've set your NE3 to do this, by setting its MIDI channel to play Slot B, for example, then switching on Dual Kbd mode doesn't do anything useful. On the other hand, using Dual Kbd mode to switch between playing the whole Program on the Global channel (Dual Kbd Off) versus playing Slot B instruments only (Dual Kbd On) might be a more generally useful selection - but you'd have to give up your "play externally, pitchbend locally" option. Your call.

So, yeah, it's basically compromise time, you just have to find the "best fit" compromises for you situation, I'm afraid.

Edit: Actually, there is one "secret sauce" setting that you may not know about. It's possible to set the Stage to NOT play any particular sound without setting Local Control off. With the sound section turned on, press SHIFT and the KBD ZONE SELECT button. The zone lights will go out, but the section remains on. This disables the Stage's own keyboard from sending notes to that one section without disabling anything else, so you can still play the section externally AND still operate its front panel controls from the Stage. This is programmable for all six sound sections individually in every single Program. If you find a use for it, it's a very powerful feature.

[siskokeys]

Is it possible that the tip with shift KBD select button is only working with NS2EX? I tried it on my NS2 with no result.

[1000Keys]

First of all, big thanks to RedLeo! Very helpful, now I know where I stand with my setup, midi-wise...

I'll try out the keyboard detach from sounds feature on my NS2EX as soon as I am at home (although I thought there was no difference in these features between NS2 classic and EX - maybe a question of firmware version?). Would be GREAT if that worked.

Two additional midi questions:
1) Is it possible to get the octave +/- settings correctly (i.e. like they are when played from the NS2 directly), when triggering the NS2EX sounds from the NE3?

2) Is there a way to use the NE3 drawbars to control the SLOT B drawbars on the NS2EX? It seems like the CC messages are slightly deviant between the two? Some drawbars kinda work, but e.g. the NE3 2' drawbar controls the NS2 8' drawbar (or so), while the NE3 1' drawbar control something completely different like switching to Farfisa model or something...
[edit:] I just compared the midi controller list from the NE3 manual with the one from the NS2EX manual - oh dear... that won't work without severe manipulation. Maybe I have to dust my old MIDITEMP off...

[RedLeo]

1) Is it possible to get the octave +/- settings correctly (i.e. like they are when played from the NS2 directly), when triggering the NS2EX sounds from the NE3?

I don't think so. Stages stubbornly keep re- (or un-) transposing MIDI data incoming and outgoing so that octave shifts don't work. I mentioned this recently to another poster having the same problem, where I said that I'd had to resort to adding a MIDI patchbay/processor to my rig to take care of that problem.

Which brings me neatly to

"I haz a MIDITEMP"

If you're willing to drag that out of retirement, that will for sure solve all your problems. I didn't suggest external gear too much because it's basically complete overkill, but if you've already got one...

2) Is there a way to use the NE3 drawbars to control the SLOT B drawbars on the NS2EX? It seems like the CC messages are slightly deviant between the two? Some drawbars kinda work, but e.g. the NE3 2' drawbar controls the NS2 8' drawbar (or so), while the NE3 1' drawbar control something completely different like switching to Farfisa model or something...[/quote]

I'm pretty sure the controller numbers are fixed on the Stages and Electros.

If you do decide to use your MIDItemp again (I'm assuming it's the MP88), your best approach would be to use the instrument mode I talked about before. Turn off Global, Slot A and Slot B MIDI, assign the different sections to six separate MIDI channels, and then create 6 zones on the MIDItemp to address each instrument (or not) from the NE3 as required. Then you can set note ranges, splits, layers, octave transposes as much as you want. That's where the tip about disabling the Stage from playing any individual voice section would come in handy.

"I say we take off and MIDItemp the entire keyboard rig from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

[RedLeo]

Is it possible that the tip with shift KBD select button is only working with NS2EX? I tried it on my NS2 with no result.

Yes it should work fine. One thing to try: the section needs to be turned on BEFORE you do this, you cannot set it if the section is off. ie you cannot go directly from Off to Keyboard Disabled.