I'm Thinking About Giving Up on Nord

[lawman]

While pondering the question of how compression and more effective EQ might improve my sound, I ran across this very interesting video, "How to EQ & Compress Piano | Nord Stage 3." In it, the host demonstrates how one can fine tune, rather simply, just a few of those parameters and nicely improve the sound of a Nord AP sample.
Granted, in the video Mr. Lepard was sitting at a $50,000 DiGiCo console with cool graphics; however, I don't know why the same principles could not also be applied with a much more modest setup. I believe that this deserves some more thought.

[catosim]

Nice video.
Some of the principles is achievable with more modest setup, but the compression tool on "modest" analog mixers doesn't have the ability to adjust attack and release.
I have a digital mixer that would allow me to to adjust these parameters, but it will affect the overall sound - included the synt and the organ engines.
To avoid this I can allocate the different engines to different outputs, but as one starts going down that road it's easy to get lost in all the possibilities.
So...I'll rather keep on using the compressor on the Stage

But I really enjoyed the video - it was very pedagogical

[cgrafx]

Once again... your trying to fix the sound out of speaker that is NOT full range. Both of the speakers that you purchased require a SUB to properly balance low frequency content with the mid/high frequency content. Pianos are incredibly broad spectrum instruments and need a full range speaker system.

Buy a sub, even a cheap one and you will be amazed at how much different the system sounds.

[cphollis]

While pondering the question of how compression and more effective EQ might improve my sound, I ran across this very interesting video, "How to EQ & Compress Piano | Nord Stage 3." In it, the host demonstrates how one can fine tune, rather simply, just a few of those parameters and nicely improve the sound of a Nord AP sample.
Granted, in the video Mr. Lepard was sitting at a $50,000 DiGiCo console with cool graphics; however, I don't know why the same principles could not also be applied with a much more modest setup. I believe that this deserves some more thought.

It's a good demonstration of what EQ and compression can do. And you can do the exact same thing with free software if you like. His goal was to make the piano sit better in the mix, which is my goal as well when playing live. However, those same sound-shaping tools work well in a variety of settings.

As mentioned above, the "one knob" compression is OK but definitely has its limits. I play through a digital mixer, it has a full range of options per channel including several different styles of compressors. His technique for finding piano resonance was interesting, I'll give that a try, as I usually do the same thing by ear without exaggerating it. The OP could try the same thing through any DAW's toolset and monitor the output quite easily.

As before, the compressor and EQ on the Nord itself is pretty good for what it is, and useful in most situations.

[Gambold]

>One reason is that there is a huge market for instruments for students. People with children or young adults with less resources want an instrument that sounds and feels like a piano and that expectation is reinforced by their teachers. <

This SOUNDS like a logical reason but I'm not sure I buy it. After all most kids these days are growing up on electronic music, and almost never listen to acoustic piano performances. Parents - well, some of them may have taken lessons when they were kids on the old parlor piano but do they really care if their kid is learning on a digital keyboard that sounds close enough to any old piano?

Plus - all these exceptional samples, like the kind we get from Clavia, are not targeted to the the elementary school learning community. They are being marketed to US - we, the keyboard nerds of the world - because for some reason WE are obsessed with replicating that acoustic piano as closely as possible. On this forum (and I'm sure others), we talk and argue at length about which sample sounds the closest to an actual keyboard, and how to equalize samples if they are lacking in certain areas, and we moan for more and better samples of Bechsteins and Steinways. This is our quest, it's not a concern for your local band teacher.

So no, I don't think we can point to school programs or parents as the targets of this marketing.

[dkernohan]

>They are being marketed to US - we, the keyboard nerds of the world - because for some reason WE are obsessed with replicating that acoustic piano as closely as possible.

I'm guessing the majority of us play in covers bands rather than our own original music. In that context, the pop/rock sonic repertoire requires a fair amount of acoustic piano, and the jazz repertoire even more so.

Because covers bands are increasingly expected to sound exactly like the recordings everyone knows keyboard players are expected to have a range of examples of well-recorded studio piano sounds.

For me, there's no one recording or sound that is the archetype, so we go through a bunch of them trying to match sounds to recordings - or, less satisfyingly, to the idealised piano sound (a composite of various recordings, spaces, and experiences) that exists only in your head.

For the OP, my advice would be to work with the gear and space you have to try to match a specific sound on a recording. Use a spectrum analyser first, then your ears. Experiment with speaker placement, with EQ, with reverb, and with compression. You'll be able to get surprisingly close with the (excellent) gear you have.

Then match another recording, and another. Save the settings as presets, and then experiment with outboard and speaker placement to get a good compromise over all these sounds.

[dkernohan]

If you really want to get in deep, beg, borrow, or steal to good quality instrument mics and put one near where each of your ears would usually be, and then compare that spectrum to the sound you like in your headphones and the recording you are aiming at

[JeffLearman]

I love Nord acoustic piano sounds through headphones, online and in videos. Otherwise, I like them much less.

I find myself thinking the same thing a lot. (But I'm far from giving up on Nord!)

When I first heard the NE2 piano, a friend playing live, my reaction was that it wasn't the piano sound I liked but it sure did fit nicely in the mix. A bit of a midrange honk, and not very expressive at low velocities (just quieter and maybe less highs.) I ended up getting an NE2 and after reviewing all the pianos then available, still felt the same.

Since then I often tried a Nord when I saw one in a shop, or belonging to a friend (usually an NE3.) Of course, the quality improved dramatically, but despite the variety, all of them seemed to have the same upper midrange honk that disturbed me. It seemed as though different pianos were sampled but using the same mikes, or something.

I now have an NE6 and am taking my time getting acquainted with the the wide variety of pianos. (Love the uprights, btw.) These all sound much more natural than the pianos I heard from the 3, but still there was that same dang honk, a bit subdued fortunately. Oddly enough, I don't notice it so much through my own headphones (nothing special: the Sennheiser FM wireless I've had for too long.) But through my QC K8-2's, I hear that honk. In every grand piano! (Maybe the least using Studio Grand, which might be my go-to but not sure yet.) Frankly, I just don't get it.

I select the NE pianos for use playing live in blues bands etc. I would probably select different pianos for playing at home.

In any case, I'm always happier when I switch back to my Yamaha CP4 (even when switching back after playing the NE6 via the CP4.) Maybe I'm just used to it after all these years.

[JeffLearman]

>They are being marketed to US - we, the keyboard nerds of the world - because for some reason WE are obsessed with replicating that acoustic piano as closely as possible.

That's the truth!

Because covers bands are increasingly expected to sound exactly like the recordings everyone knows keyboard players are expected to have a range of examples of well-recorded studio piano sounds.

Really? I'll have to take your word for it -- I'm a "pro-am" player at best. But what I find is that nobody in the audience cares that much about keyboard tone: they care about how well the instrument is played. I still see people playing RD-700 and the audience loves it or not depending on the quality of playing, not the instrument.

Of course, it's also funny -- but true -- that the original band can play a song any way they want, but a cover band is expected to nail the studio recording.

I got a real lesson in the relative importance of tone vs technique when I was approaching a band playing at an art fair. From a distance, I thought "Gee, hot fiddle player." As I got closer, I realized it was a keyboard. And as I got really close, I noticed that the violin patch was really not very good, but the player was nailing the way a fiddle player plays so well that it didn't matter. Plus I've heard great piano players make amazingly good music on terrible pianos.

So I think the bottom line is that we keyboard players, and possibly producers and engineers, care about details of piano realism and tone, but hardly anyone else. Most people mostly just care about the music. That or how hot the singer looks.

[cgrafx]

I love Nord acoustic piano sounds through headphones, online and in videos. Otherwise, I like them much less.

I find myself thinking the same thing a lot. (But I'm far from giving up on Nord!)

When I first heard the NE2 piano, a friend playing live, my reaction was that it wasn't the piano sound I liked but it sure did fit nicely in the mix. A bit of a midrange honk, and not very expressive at low velocities (just quieter and maybe less highs.) I ended up getting an NE2 and after reviewing all the pianos then available, still felt the same.

Since then I often tried a Nord when I saw one in a shop, or belonging to a friend (usually an NE3.) Of course, the quality improved dramatically, but despite the variety, all of them seemed to have the same upper midrange honk that disturbed me. It seemed as though different pianos were sampled but using the same mikes, or something.

I now have an NE6 and am taking my time getting acquainted with the the wide variety of pianos. (Love the uprights, btw.) These all sound much more natural than the pianos I heard from the 3, but still there was that same dang honk, a bit subdued fortunately. Oddly enough, I don't notice it so much through my own headphones (nothing special: the Sennheiser FM wireless I've had for too long.) But through my QC K8-2's, I hear that honk. In every grand piano! (Maybe the least using Studio Grand, which might be my go-to but not sure yet.) Frankly, I just don't get it.

I select the NE pianos for use playing live in blues bands etc. I would probably select different pianos for playing at home.

In any case, I'm always happier when I switch back to my Yamaha CP4 (even when switching back after playing the NE6 via the CP4.) Maybe I'm just used to it after all these years.

I don't know how many times I'm going to have to pound this into people. As useful a speaker as the QSC K8.2 is, it is NOT a full range speaker. Your expecting a mid-high cabinet to do something it wasn't designed to do. The reason pianos sound better in headphones is that headphones when properly coupled to your ear are full range speakers with real frequency response down to 20-30hz.

Want to hear something really honky/tiny, move your headphones away from your ear an inch or two. They will lose all of their bass response.

If you want your K series speakers or any other similar small box to sound better, pair it with a sub woofer.