NS3 Velocity and General Sound vs NS2

[analogika]

I agree completely that there is a major difference between the piano sections.

It’s just that I actually had them side by side for weeks, so I know exactly why I like the Stage 3 so much better.

Funny thing: when my colleague came over to buy the Stage 2, he also played the Stage 3 - and no longer wanted the 2.

[aureliopenna]

I'll share in that.

I'll also add that the pianos sound exceptional and glorious through my HS8s at home. So I'm still pleased. The only thing I struggled to getting sounding as good are the Rhodes. I put two of them together and fiddled with EQ and drive to get what I like. Perceptions, right?

Love the Stage 3 so much I bought two, NS3 88 and NS3 Compact.

We all love everything from clavia, and we do for some reason right ? Like you I didn´t like the rhodes too. Still personal opinion.

[MrTobbe]

I totally sure I am minority at this point, and I know how this may sound like a boring person trying to expose his own point of view. But I have been trying to do this always indicating that it is my personal perception and trying to post some audios that corroborate what I say in the posts.

I might be dissapointed but still love Nord Keyboard (maybe because of that I´m dessapointed, ) I just want to share my experience, and be sure my unit is not differet from others Stage 3 on the market, by revision or not.

This is all good IMO...

I don´t know if it´s my own NS3 or all of them but the eq section is not sounding even close to my NS2.
I recorded DX7 FullTines lrg with 127 velocity from Nuendo doing the same thing. Both keyboard with full master and module volume.
First Nord Stage 3 than Nord Stage 2. Let´s listening?

I have listened to these six demo clips now, again and again, both through headphones and speakers - I even loaded them into audacity and made FFT frequency analysis on them, to visualize the differences between Stage 3 and 4 (and I can upload screenshots from the analyzer some other day, if someone is interested.

My finding is that I agree that there are obvious difference in how the reverb sounds, but to my ears the differences in both playback of the raw DX7 piano, as well as the EQ'd version seem minor, and I wouldn't even hear a differens if didn't know it was there.
Now my hearing above 6 kHz isn't what it should be, most likely because of listening to loud music for the last 25 years or so... and above 10kHz I hear practically nothing... so I am hardly the best judge of which treble EQ sounds better... BUT I'm sure I would find differences if I had both a Stage 2 and 3 in front of me - playing and tweaking it is a whole different deal than just hearing a few individual clips. Then it's hard to say exactly how much gets lost when you compress the files to mp3, but if you have a trained ear you can surely hear a difference between the mp3 and you original recordings - just a thought. Also the frequency content looks very similar for the first four sound files (I haven't analyzed the reverb clips, since the difference in sound is a lot more obvious there ) - I see no strong differences between the Stage 2 and 3, the frequency content is about the same, both with and without EQ - then again, a trained human ear is a lot more sensitive to small changes, and have a lot higher frequency resolution than any FFT frequency analyzer.

One more thought - to better show the differences with the EQ, a better audio demo might be to play back the same string/pad sample from the synth section - holding a chord and sweep each of the three EQ bands. Record this as a midi file and play it back with each keyboard. That might be more revealing than just a fixed eq setting and a couple of piano chords.

So in the end, I still agree with you that there is a difference in sound between the Stage 2 and Stage 3, but to my ears, these differences are still too small to make a difference for me.

Cheers!

[Streef]

I'll add my 50cts, in support of all that have a problem with Piano sounds on the NS3:

I have NS2EX 88 and NS3 88 side-by-side. I tested grand piano (Bright Grand YaS4 LRG) and electric piano (MK1 Epiano 5.3) using the exact same samples from Nord Piano library. I used exact the same mixer settings and 1 headphone only. I tested the sound with and without effects, compressor, etc. My main conclusion: they sound exactly the same. No difference can be heard if you play the notes at the same volume. I uploaded 4 samples playing the NS2 and NS3 in random order. It would be nice if anybody can hear the difference between 2 and 3. Can I ask everybody to vote, would be fun to see the results . Who dares !

What I think is that the problem mainly arrises with the 88 key version. This is where the difference between Stage 2 and 3 is very clear, and it all has to do with the velocity curve (also known as keyboard touch/dynamics). It is clear that Nord has changed the velocity curve between NS2 and NS3. I believe this change has made it easier/nicer to play piano on NS3 compact / HP76. However, it doesn't turn out well for the 88 key version. Please note I didn't compare compact/HP76, this is just my assumption, as some people have no problem at all playing the piano on NS3.

I found that the NS2 and NS3 behave the same (at least without being able to notice any difference) if you set the dynamics to '2' on the NS2, and keep the standard curve for NS3 (keyboard touch lights off). The problem is that with this setting, most of what you play comes out hard, and it gets very even, not easy to give a lot of expression (load and soft) while playing. This is my main concern with the NS3.

It would be nice if people reacting state if they have the NS3 88 key version and recognise the problem.

I hope Nord is working on a fix, which should be very simple, so people can select the 'old NS2 curve' in one of the menu's...

• NordStage23_brightgrand_note.mp3

• NordStage23_brightgrand_chord.mp3

• NordStage23_epiano_note.mp3

• NordStage23_epiano_chord.mp3

[fjzingo]

They sound really similar, first one a tiny bit more open in character suggesting it to be 3.

Both stage 2 and 3 are very lite wrt touch, so a harder curve would be a very welcome addition. I’ve setup my stage 2 beside my stage 3, and the stage 3 is definitely the better sounding unit. I tested youre setting s with dynamics set at 2 and it’s really not the same. I also tested controlling both units from internal, 2 controlling 3 and vice versa with different velocity setting s on the extern section. My take is that there are better D/As in the stage 3 which makes the highs jump out earlier. Both demands a very light touch, so both are a bit to light for me-but that might be good for youre hands doing a three set gig.

/Fredrik

I'll add my 50cts, in support of all that have a problem with Piano sounds on the NS3:

I have NS2EX 88 and NS3 88 side-by-side. I tested grand piano (Bright Grand YaS4 LRG) and electric piano (MK1 Epiano 5.3) using the exact same samples from Nord Piano library. I used exact the same mixer settings and 1 headphone only. I tested the sound with and without effects, compressor, etc. My main conclusion: they sound exactly the same. No difference can be heard if you play the notes at the same volume. I uploaded 4 samples playing the NS2 and NS3 in random order. It would be nice if anybody can hear the difference between 2 and 3. Can I ask everybody to vote, would be fun to see the results . Who dares !

What I think is that the problem mainly arrises with the 88 key version. This is where the difference between Stage 2 and 3 is very clear, and it all has to do with the velocity curve (also known as keyboard touch/dynamics). It is clear that Nord has changed the velocity curve between NS2 and NS3. I believe this change has made it easier/nicer to play piano on NS3 compact / HP76. However, it doesn't turn out well for the 88 key version. Please note I didn't compare compact/HP76, this is just my assumption, as some people have no problem at all playing the piano on NS3.

I found that the NS2 and NS3 behave the same (at least without being able to notice any difference) if you set the dynamics to '2' on the NS2, and keep the standard curve for NS3 (keyboard touch lights off). The problem is that with this setting, most of what you play comes out hard, and it gets very even, not easy to give a lot of expression (load and soft) while playing. This is my main concern with the NS3.

It would be nice if people reacting state if they have the NS3 88 key version and recognise the problem.

I hope Nord is working on a fix, which should be very simple, so people can select the 'old NS2 curve' in one of the menu's...

• NordStage23_brightgrand_note.mp3

• NordStage23_brightgrand_chord.mp3

• NordStage23_epiano_note.mp3

• NordStage23_epiano_chord.mp3

[aureliopenna]

I totally sure I am minority at this point, and I know how this may sound like a boring person trying to expose his own point of view. But I have been trying to do this always indicating that it is my personal perception and trying to post some audios that corroborate what I say in the posts.

I might be dissapointed but still love Nord Keyboard (maybe because of that I´m dessapointed, ) I just want to share my experience, and be sure my unit is not differet from others Stage 3 on the market, by revision or not.

This is all good IMO...

I don´t know if it´s my own NS3 or all of them but the eq section is not sounding even close to my NS2.
I recorded DX7 FullTines lrg with 127 velocity from Nuendo doing the same thing. Both keyboard with full master and module volume.
First Nord Stage 3 than Nord Stage 2. Let´s listening?

I have listened to these six demo clips now, again and again, both through headphones and speakers - I even loaded them into audacity and made FFT frequency analysis on them, to visualize the differences between Stage 3 and 4 (and I can upload screenshots from the analyzer some other day, if someone is interested.

My finding is that I agree that there are obvious difference in how the reverb sounds, but to my ears the differences in both playback of the raw DX7 piano, as well as the EQ'd version seem minor, and I wouldn't even hear a differens if didn't know it was there.
Now my hearing above 6 kHz isn't what it should be, most likely because of listening to loud music for the last 25 years or so... and above 10kHz I hear practically nothing... so I am hardly the best judge of which treble EQ sounds better... BUT I'm sure I would find differences if I had both a Stage 2 and 3 in front of me - playing and tweaking it is a whole different deal than just hearing a few individual clips. Then it's hard to say exactly how much gets lost when you compress the files to mp3, but if you have a trained ear you can surely hear a difference between the mp3 and you original recordings - just a thought. Also the frequency content looks very similar for the first four sound files (I haven't analyzed the reverb clips, since the difference in sound is a lot more obvious there ) - I see no strong differences between the Stage 2 and 3, the frequency content is about the same, both with and without EQ - then again, a trained human ear is a lot more sensitive to small changes, and have a lot higher frequency resolution than any FFT frequency analyzer.

One more thought - to better show the differences with the EQ, a better audio demo might be to play back the same string/pad sample from the synth section - holding a chord and sweep each of the three EQ bands. Record this as a midi file and play it back with each keyboard. That might be more revealing than just a fixed eq setting and a couple of piano chords.

So in the end, I still agree with you that there is a difference in sound between the Stage 2 and Stage 3, but to my ears, these differences are still too small to make a difference for me.

Cheers!

Great Idea! I'll do it next!

[aureliopenna]

I'll add my 50cts, in support of all that have a problem with Piano sounds on the NS3:

I have NS2EX 88 and NS3 88 side-by-side. I tested grand piano (Bright Grand YaS4 LRG) and electric piano (MK1 Epiano 5.3) using the exact same samples from Nord Piano library. I used exact the same mixer settings and 1 headphone only. I tested the sound with and without effects, compressor, etc. My main conclusion: they sound exactly the same. No difference can be heard if you play the notes at the same volume. I uploaded 4 samples playing the NS2 and NS3 in random order. It would be nice if anybody can hear the difference between 2 and 3. Can I ask everybody to vote, would be fun to see the results . Who dares !

What I think is that the problem mainly arrises with the 88 key version. This is where the difference between Stage 2 and 3 is very clear, and it all has to do with the velocity curve (also known as keyboard touch/dynamics). It is clear that Nord has changed the velocity curve between NS2 and NS3. I believe this change has made it easier/nicer to play piano on NS3 compact / HP76. However, it doesn't turn out well for the 88 key version. Please note I didn't compare compact/HP76, this is just my assumption, as some people have no problem at all playing the piano on NS3.

I found that the NS2 and NS3 behave the same (at least without being able to notice any difference) if you set the dynamics to '2' on the NS2, and keep the standard curve for NS3 (keyboard touch lights off). The problem is that with this setting, most of what you play comes out hard, and it gets very even, not easy to give a lot of expression (load and soft) while playing. This is my main concern with the NS3.

It would be nice if people reacting state if they have the NS3 88 key version and recognise the problem.

I hope Nord is working on a fix, which should be very simple, so people can select the 'old NS2 curve' in one of the menu's...

• NordStage23_brightgrand_note.mp3

• NordStage23_brightgrand_chord.mp3

• NordStage23_epiano_note.mp3

• NordStage23_epiano_chord.mp3

I did heard a tiny sound on the last note of "epiano_chord" from first play that gone on second play.

[Copia]

Can I ask everybody to vote, would be fun to see the results . Who dares

I'll play. Coming out of left field with the ghost of Shoeless Joe Jackson...

• NordStage23_brightgrand_note.mp3

1: Stage 3 // 2: Stage 2

• NordStage23_brightgrand_chord.mp3

1: Stage 2 // 2: Stage 3

• NordStage23_epiano_note.mp3

I have no idea. [Edit: If I had a gun to my head, I'd say 1: Stage 2 // 2: Stage 3]

• NordStage23_epiano_chord.mp3

1: Stage 2 // 2: Stage 3

How'd I do?

[Streef]

Hi Copia, respect for playing !

Would be nice to hear the votes from the other well known players on this forum! I'll give the results when we have a bit more votes

[Mr_-G-]

Just curious, how do you guarantee that you are comparing the same output from the preamp of the instrument? Just by the volume dial position set by hand/ear? Or was this properly calibrated (and if so, how?).