Incredible disappointment after 1.28 (and after all)

[rabennest]

Hi Folks,

I have to express my biggest disappointment over the Nord Stage 3.
It is incredible, what you do to your customers, Nord.
After 1.28 update and becoming aware of lost volume control, I am now turning sick of this product policy!
The VOLUME PEDAL wasn´t working any more after an "up"date
What are we talking about here?
A 4000 Dollar keyboard for work or a f..... nerdy raspberry project?
Guys at nord, my nerves are jangled.
Still, after month, the organ sound is still destroyed. I am waiting, waiting, waiting to get the NE4 sound back.
You don´t even commuicate if you are at least willing, to change this.
The amount of degradation of the organ is is a major point for me, to even get rid of the Stage 3.

And the feeling, that is going to stick with this purchase for me, is betrayal.
The Stage 3 hasn´t been ready for delivery from the beginning on.
The ideas about it are great, Many already working functions are, too,
but the issues, it still has, have destroyed my trust in a KEYBOARD.
Never experienced such a thing with any pro keyboard I´ve played.
It´s like getting unsure about handling a CD-player!
It can´t work like this, guys.
The only thing that holds me back of selling the NS3 right at the spot is,
like with shitty stocks, becoming aware and to admit to yourself,
that your own decision was very probably wrong, and you
are just waiting and waiting for it and hope, it will get better.
Still working on this point.

Very sad, angry and disappointed,
Frank

[Pidcin]

Still, after month, the organ sound is still destroyed. I am waiting, waiting, waiting to get the NE4 sound back.
You don´t even commuicate if you are at least willing, to change this.
The amount of degradation of the organ is is a major point for me, to even get rid of the Stage 3.


Frank[/quote]


Can you tell me more about the difference in stage 2 organ and stage 3?

I thought the stage 3 had the c2d engine? Isn’t that s good thing?

[fjzingo]

Without any doubt a far to early release, my biggest disappointement is in the midi department, really serious issues. Interesting comparison to a rasberry pie project....

If I were Nord I would not introduce any new products at this years Namm. I would focus on finalise the the nord stage 3 so it actually keep its promise being a stable an solid proffesional instrument. Reliability is far to low at this point in time.

[analogika]

Still, after month, the organ sound is still destroyed. I am waiting, waiting, waiting to get the NE4 sound back.
You don´t even commuicate if you are at least willing, to change this.
The amount of degradation of the organ is is a major point for me, to even get rid of the Stage 3.


Frank

Can you tell me more about the difference in stage 2 organ and stage 3?

I thought the stage 3 had the c2d engine? Isn’t that s good thing?

It does sound different from the Stage 2 (I cannot compare it to a C2D or Electro 5).

The Stage 3 is brighter overall (pianos also), while the Stage 2 has a bit more warmth, and in consequence, you can get more “bite” from the distortion without the Stage 2 getting too bright. But the Stage 3’s “122 close” Leslie model sounds much better, so it’s actually pretty great.

Problems right now are that
- the C3 chorus setting isn’t working (it produces a C2 chorus sound), and
- the percussion is broken (percussion “soft” is FAR too quiet, while the “normal” percussion setting sounds the way “soft” should, but it doesn’t lower the volume of the drawbars the way it should.

As a matter of taste, I feel like the new Leslie is balanced too far towards the Horn, with the rotor being too quiet, but that isn’t an issue that breaks the organ sound, IMO.

[Pidcin]

Still, after month, the organ sound is still destroyed. I am waiting, waiting, waiting to get the NE4 sound back.
You don´t even commuicate if you are at least willing, to change this.
The amount of degradation of the organ is is a major point for me, to even get rid of the Stage 3.


Frank

Can you tell me more about the difference in stage 2 organ and stage 3?

I thought the stage 3 had the c2d engine? Isn’t that s good thing?

It does sound different from the Stage 2 (I cannot compare it to a C2D or Electro 5).

The Stage 3 is brighter overall (pianos also), while the Stage 2 has a bit more warmth, and in consequence, you can get more “bite” from the distortion without the Stage 2 getting too bright. But the Stage 3’s “122 close” Leslie model sounds much better, so it’s actually pretty great.

Problems right now are that
- the C3 chorus setting isn’t working (it produces a C2 chorus sound), and
- the percussion is broken (percussion “soft” is FAR too quiet, while the “normal” percussion setting sounds the way “soft” should, but it doesn’t lower the volume of the drawbars the way it should.

As a matter of taste, I feel like the new Leslie is balanced too far towards the Horn, with the rotor being too quiet, but that isn’t an issue that breaks the organ sound, IMO.

Thank you!

I’ve only had the chance to play the stage 3 88HA and I was very very pleased and impressed .

Would you be able to answer these questions for me ?

The lead A1 has 4 slots to put sounds in. So you can play 4 oscillators simultaneously . But in the stage 3 you have 2 panels you can play simultaneously, however in each panel you can put a oscillator and layer it with a sample and balance the volumes between them. Is this the same thing essentially ?

Also, what’s all this talk about dual KB ? ( dual keyboard ) no longer working ? I plan on getting a 73 and a kawai VPC1 controller just for the rhodes and piano because everything else seems to play better with waterfall action. I heard people say you’re unable to have 6 sounds ( 2 different sounds from each engine ) play together anymore , that it’s sinply only 1 sound ? I’m very confused ..

[Fallboard]

Also, what’s all this talk about dual KB ? ( dual keyboard ) no longer working ? I plan on getting a 73 and a kawai VPC1 controller just for the rhodes and piano because everything else seems to play better with waterfall action. I heard people say you’re unable to have 6 sounds ( 2 different sounds from each engine ) play together anymore , that it’s sinply only 1 sound ? I’m very confused ..

Pid, just be aware the NS3C 73 has a problem with incoming MIDI velocity to the piano engine. I don't know how configurable the Kawai VPC-1 is, but I have an MP11 and I have to set its output velocity curve to the heaviest possible setting and set the NS3 piano engine to zero LEDs just to get it to be passably playable, and some softer passages are still difficult. It's definitely not normal. My theory is that they put a LOT of effort into making that Waterfall action play well with the piano engine (and it shows!) but simply applied that velocity curve to ALL incoming keyboard MIDI date to the piano engine. Oops.

[analogika]

I’ve only had the chance to play the stage 3 88HA and I was very very pleased and impressed .

I absolutely *love* mine, coming from a Stage 2. The new Leslie and the drawbars are such *huge* deals to what I do that the organ is a lot more fun, despite its current shortcomings (and percussion and chorus are sure to be fixed, as they are obviously defective).

The lead A1 has 4 slots to put sounds in. So you can play 4 oscillators simultaneously . But in the stage 3 you have 2 panels you can play simultaneously, however in each panel you can put a oscillator and layer it with a sample and balance the volumes between them. Is this the same thing essentially ?

Yes, two slots only on the Stage 3. I'm not sure how it works on the A1, but on the Stage 3, you can have either Classic (virtual analog) Synth waveforms, Wavetable, Superwaves, FM, Samples, or Formant waves as primary sources, and you can add an extra oscillator with the usual waveforms, or noise, or an FM-like "bell", or ring modulation — which can be mixed and detuned, where appropriate.

You have one each of these two-"oscillator" synths in Slot A and Slot B.

Also, what’s all this talk about dual KB ? ( dual keyboard ) no longer working ? I plan on getting a 73 and a kawai VPC1 controller just for the rhodes and piano because everything else seems to play better with waterfall action. I heard people say you’re unable to have 6 sounds ( 2 different sounds from each engine ) play together anymore , that it’s sinply only 1 sound ? I’m very confused ..

When the Stage 3 first shipped, you could use an external keyboard to control a full Slot (A or B) — an entire panel combination of the three engines (organ, piano, synth) and crossfades, etc.

At some point (1.22?), Clavia decided that the interface was confusing, and removed the full panel control. You can now only control one of the three engines at a time.

It sounds like this limitation is irrelevant to your scenario, since you will be using the external keyboard for pianos only. I think that's an ideal setup - though I'm very happy with how playable pianos have become on the Stage 3 compact keyboard, for my purposes (I'm not primarily a pianist).

[anotherscott]

Also, what’s all this talk about dual KB ? ( dual keyboard ) no longer working ?

Dual KB Mode works, but it works differently than it used to. It is also not the only way to configure the board to trigger from an external keyboard.

I heard people say you’re unable to have 6 sounds ( 2 different sounds from each engine ) play together anymore , that it’s sinply only 1 sound ? I’m very confused ..

You can still have all 6 sounds play at once. Options include having all 6 sounds play at once on the internal keyboard (normal operation); having 5 sounds play at once on the internal keyboard and 1 sound on an external keyboard (Dual KB); having 3 sounds play at once on the internal keyboard and 3 other sounds on the external keyboard (MIDI Panel).

[MrTobbe]

Pid, just be aware the NS3C 73 has a problem with incoming MIDI velocity to the piano engine.

Ok, we are straying a bit off-topic here... but anyway:

Well, this may not be true in all cases. I often play my Stage 3 pianos from a Korg M3-88 and I think they play together quite nicely. I am not questioning that the Stage 3 doesn't play well with your MP-11, but the result will probably be different with other hammer action boards - and velocity curves are also a matter of personal preference, and that is why keyboards often have different velocity curves to choose from.

Now to the specific setup Nord Stage 3 with Kawai VPC-1. The VPC-1 has five preset velocity curves, and five user curves. The user curves are edited with the VPC Editor (available for both Mac OS and Windows, see screen shot below), and you can even have different velocity offsets on each key, if you like. So with the VPC and the editor it must be possible to get a velocity curve, that makes the Stage 3 pianos playable.

[analogika]

You can still have all 6 sounds play at once. Options include having all 6 sounds play at once on the internal keyboard (normal operation); having 5 sounds play at once on the internal keyboard and 1 sound on an external keyboard (Dual KB); having 3 sounds play at once on the internal keyboard and 3 other sounds on the external keyboard (MIDI Panel).

What? But this is precisely what no longer works!

You cannot have "3 other sounds on the external keyboard (MIDI Panel)" — the panel option has been removed! You have to choose between Panel B organ, Panel B piano, or Panel B synth; that's it.

You can only play a single engine from an external keyboard; you can not control a whole panel of three engines.

That's the whole reason people are upset in the first place!