Another transpose dilemma
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Re: Another transpose dilemma
Part of the problem is the difficulty to transpose. For example, on my Jupiter 50, there are 3 buttons side by side...
Transpose, Down, and Up. You hit transpose with your middle finger, and, while holding it down, you use your index finger for down or up. One hand. Note: If you DONT hit the Transpose and hold it, you can then use the Down and Up as Octave Down and Up; dual function with just the 2 buttons.
Quick. Compare that to the 5D. I'm not a big Roland lover, but this is one area where they are very good. The Roland board is designed for live gigging as first priority though.
Transpose, Down, and Up. You hit transpose with your middle finger, and, while holding it down, you use your index finger for down or up. One hand. Note: If you DONT hit the Transpose and hold it, you can then use the Down and Up as Octave Down and Up; dual function with just the 2 buttons.
Quick. Compare that to the 5D. I'm not a big Roland lover, but this is one area where they are very good. The Roland board is designed for live gigging as first priority though.
Last edited by theGman on 26 Oct 2016, 23:22, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Another transpose dilemma
Good point, Gman. How often do we see companies designing real world devices but fail to account for human factors. I teach this sort of thing at the college level. It's my experience that so many hardware and software products are designed by very smart people who blatantly assume we are all as smart!! Either that or they are pure theorists who have no clue about how the real world works.
Before Boeing released their first 777, they held a huge conference where they invited hundreds of mechanics who fix Boeing airplanes. Boeing officials asked the mechanics what was wrong with the designs. Management was shocked to find out that the mechanics often work on engines in sub-zero temperatures and that access to key components is difficult enough - never mind having to do it in the cold. Boeing made all kinds of notes and apparently fixed a lot of issues.
Keyboard manufacturers may listen to what we want but not how we want it!!
Before Boeing released their first 777, they held a huge conference where they invited hundreds of mechanics who fix Boeing airplanes. Boeing officials asked the mechanics what was wrong with the designs. Management was shocked to find out that the mechanics often work on engines in sub-zero temperatures and that access to key components is difficult enough - never mind having to do it in the cold. Boeing made all kinds of notes and apparently fixed a lot of issues.
Keyboard manufacturers may listen to what we want but not how we want it!!
- cphollis
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Re: Another transpose dilemma
So, a heated topic on other keyboard forums. One point of view: transpose buttons seen as generally evil. Learn to play in the assigned key, it's good for you. That's my preferred approach for multiple reasons, the first of which is that it creates incentive to play hard stuff in hard keys. Always want to get better.
That being said, incredibly useful in some situations. I learned a very complicated set of riffs in C, and when I showed up to the gig, the band leader said "we're doing it in C#". OK, for him, he uses a capo with no sweat. Me, I'm dealing with all these frigging black notes I haven't practiced for. Transpose key to the rescue.
I never, ever want to depend on transpose. I'm willing to put in the time to make my self proficient in different keys. But when you get surprised, OK, there it is. Just remember to turn it off before the next song
BTW, just sayin' I've been a HUGE Nord fan for the last few years. Whatever they're doing, it speaks to me.
That being said, incredibly useful in some situations. I learned a very complicated set of riffs in C, and when I showed up to the gig, the band leader said "we're doing it in C#". OK, for him, he uses a capo with no sweat. Me, I'm dealing with all these frigging black notes I haven't practiced for. Transpose key to the rescue.
I never, ever want to depend on transpose. I'm willing to put in the time to make my self proficient in different keys. But when you get surprised, OK, there it is. Just remember to turn it off before the next song

BTW, just sayin' I've been a HUGE Nord fan for the last few years. Whatever they're doing, it speaks to me.
Last edited by cphollis on 26 Oct 2016, 05:08, edited 1 time in total.
I think I have gear issues ....
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Re: Another transpose dilemma
Agreed about Nord products. With their recent improvements to piano voices, they really shine above the other guys.
Transpose is definitely a two edged sword. The "piano players capo" is seen as a huge weakness among otherwise excellent pianists. I have no issue relying on the magic button, other than the key of C has geographic disadvantages. Some licks are far easier in G, for example. And I too have sustained a few bruises on stage by accidentally leaving the piano transposed in the wrong damn key!! I have no issue learning the other primary keys (A, D, E, F, G), but learning the sharp and flat keys could be a major challenge. I can play complex chords in most keys, however, learning the solos and licks is a huge challenge. I would basically need to wood shed everything for a solid year - although taking just one key at a time would likely be feasible. Recently, I've been playing in G a lot and am slowly getting good at playing my C licks in G. There may be hope for me yet
!
On the other hand, Irving Berlin played everything in F#, keeping the pentatonic scale on the black notes. He never learned to read music and owned two mechanical transposing pianos. Of course, what did he know
?
Transpose is definitely a two edged sword. The "piano players capo" is seen as a huge weakness among otherwise excellent pianists. I have no issue relying on the magic button, other than the key of C has geographic disadvantages. Some licks are far easier in G, for example. And I too have sustained a few bruises on stage by accidentally leaving the piano transposed in the wrong damn key!! I have no issue learning the other primary keys (A, D, E, F, G), but learning the sharp and flat keys could be a major challenge. I can play complex chords in most keys, however, learning the solos and licks is a huge challenge. I would basically need to wood shed everything for a solid year - although taking just one key at a time would likely be feasible. Recently, I've been playing in G a lot and am slowly getting good at playing my C licks in G. There may be hope for me yet

On the other hand, Irving Berlin played everything in F#, keeping the pentatonic scale on the black notes. He never learned to read music and owned two mechanical transposing pianos. Of course, what did he know

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Re: Another transpose dilemma
Not an issue on the NE3 HP, because there is no way to Transpose. Period.
The manual says you can, but offers no explanation, as to how.
I have searched the forum, YouTube, contacted NORD, emailed Pablo.
The only response I have gotten is PDF copies of the manual sent to me.
OK, thank you, but again the manual says NOTHING,..........
Oh, sorry it does say this:
Transpose
Transpose allows you transpose the pitch of the Electro 3 up or down in semitone steps.
Range: -/+ 6 semitones (default = 0).
That's it. And NORD has the audacity to actually INDEX this page.
So, thanks NORD, for that in-depth explanation. (SARCASM)
It must have something to do with the fact that these keyboards are "sample playback" units.
I challenge ANYONE to show me that it is possible to transpose on a NE3 HP.
The manual says you can, but offers no explanation, as to how.
I have searched the forum, YouTube, contacted NORD, emailed Pablo.
The only response I have gotten is PDF copies of the manual sent to me.
OK, thank you, but again the manual says NOTHING,..........
Oh, sorry it does say this:
Transpose
Transpose allows you transpose the pitch of the Electro 3 up or down in semitone steps.
Range: -/+ 6 semitones (default = 0).
That's it. And NORD has the audacity to actually INDEX this page.
So, thanks NORD, for that in-depth explanation. (SARCASM)
It must have something to do with the fact that these keyboards are "sample playback" units.
I challenge ANYONE to show me that it is possible to transpose on a NE3 HP.
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Re: Another transpose dilemma
You could have saved a lot of typing by just searching the forum for "NE3" and "transpose":
http://www.norduserforum.com/nord-elect ... pose#p7356
http://www.norduserforum.com/nord-elect ... pose#p7356
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Re: Another transpose dilemma
When you have global transpose of say +1 and program transpose of say +2. Do you get actual transpose of +1 (global) +2 (program) or +3 (combined)?
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Re: Another transpose dilemma
The transpose dilemma is real. I had a Yamaha MO8 before my NS3 and never had a problem with transposing songs during a gig (our singer often needs some songs tuned down a half-step or full-step). I learn the songs in their original key and then transpose my keyboard during gigs according to his vocal abilities. With the MO8, I believe I would leave the screen on that showed what setting the transpose was on. The thing I hate about the NS3 is that it doesn't show the transposition on the screen unless you hit the transpose button, it pops up for a few seconds, then disappears again. If I'm playing a show I like to know what transposition I'm in (at a quick glance) without having to "un-transpose" and then "re-transpose" just to see what it is. Super picky, 1st-world problem, I know, but here is my solution:
I have banks of 5 different common sounds labeled with my regularly used transpositions. So when I transition from piano to strings or organ mid-song, it stays in the same key, and I can still see what the key transposition is:
A:11 = Piano 0
A:12 = Organ 0
A:13 = StringsI 0
A:14 = Strings II 0
A:15 = PianoStrings 0
A:21 = Piano -1
A:22 = Organ -1
A:23 = StringsI -1
A:24 = StringsII -1
A:25 = PianoStrings -1
A:31 = Piano 1
A:32 = Organ 1
A:33 = StringsI 1
A:34 = StringsII 1
A:35 = PianoStrings 1
A:41 = Piano 2
etc.
Jogging through the pages is a breeze with the < Page/Bank > keys, so it's not a big deal. I use Copy/Paste to replicate them and keep them all sounding the same, same volume, effects, etc. All of my banks from A:51 and onward are song-specific, and I just save them as the name of the song, and in the key our band plays them in. If I need more than a few sounds per song I will make 2 different programs and save them both to the transposition we use. I absolutely refuse to ever push the "transpose" button while playing live because I often forget that I've done it.
I have banks of 5 different common sounds labeled with my regularly used transpositions. So when I transition from piano to strings or organ mid-song, it stays in the same key, and I can still see what the key transposition is:
A:11 = Piano 0
A:12 = Organ 0
A:13 = StringsI 0
A:14 = Strings II 0
A:15 = PianoStrings 0
A:21 = Piano -1
A:22 = Organ -1
A:23 = StringsI -1
A:24 = StringsII -1
A:25 = PianoStrings -1
A:31 = Piano 1
A:32 = Organ 1
A:33 = StringsI 1
A:34 = StringsII 1
A:35 = PianoStrings 1
A:41 = Piano 2
etc.
Jogging through the pages is a breeze with the < Page/Bank > keys, so it's not a big deal. I use Copy/Paste to replicate them and keep them all sounding the same, same volume, effects, etc. All of my banks from A:51 and onward are song-specific, and I just save them as the name of the song, and in the key our band plays them in. If I need more than a few sounds per song I will make 2 different programs and save them both to the transposition we use. I absolutely refuse to ever push the "transpose" button while playing live because I often forget that I've done it.
Last edited by inick2005i on 02 Mar 2022, 02:32, edited 2 times in total.