Some impressions and critics

[tirila]

Hi everybody,

I'm new to the forum, so at first I will say hello to everyone and thank some guys for posting lists of sample and preset names for the Nordstage which I found very usefull. Maybe someone will find my list usefull too (see below).

After playing the Stage 2 for nearly one month, after heavy programming and sorting sounds for me and my band, I will let you know some of my impressions.
First I have to say that this is a very great instrument to me, regardless of my critics. I have very much fun playing it.

I hope someone of the staff at Clavia will read this too. Some bugs I found I sent to Clavia directly and got the answer that they will correct it with the next update - thats great.

So here are my critics:

- Hardware:

All in all the instruments hardware quality is superb. But I never had or own a keyboard (and I have a lot, even cheap ones) where the black keys are creaking like an old staircase. I own the Compact version with 73 waterfall keys and it's drinving me crazy when playing with moderate loudness at home. Playing at rehearsal with the band or on stage of course one can't hear it.
Maybe some people with the same keyboard can confirm it.
Perhaps it's only the lack of some grease, but I don't want to open the instrument because of warranty.

The other thing is the memory.
Guys, we live in 2011. 16GB USB-Sticks are about 10 Euros.
Even if they (Clavia) don't want to expand the internal memory, where is the problem to implement a USB connector for expanding the memory? Not only for sample space (maybe too slow), but also for preset backups, firmware, system settings and so on. Even Roland can handle it at their cheap Gaia, where a USB stick can double the internal memory.
It's a shame for Clavia.

- The manual

I think for an instrument, one has to pay 3000 Euro or more, the manual could be some more detailed. All pictures could be photographs, not graphics without labeling. Detailed informations of data storage could be included. Lists of sounds, samples, waves etc should be self-evident.

The manuals that are available are very different. The online manuals, even the addendum (V1.3) , aren't up to date. The printed version is, but it isn't availlable as pdf. Just confusion.
E.G. the parameter "Program loading mode" of the system menu, which is described in the pdf-manual, isn't implemented in the 1.3 version, did they loose it? I miss it!


- The sounds

The sound programming I think is quite poor. More than 80 presets (of 300) only differ in the choosen sample, where Slot B is allways the same as Slot A but with activated effects (which are mostly the same in all presets). Some sounds are just stupid (who needs a heavy distorted jazz-bass ???). Of course, sound programming is a matter of personal taste, so it is normal to program your own sounds. In the end one has to sort all the sounds which will take a lot of time. The sound manager software isn't really helpfull, it is only a very basic tool.

For this reason I filled in an Excel sheet, of course with the help of the lists of sounds from other forum members, I mentioned above. Thanks again. In this sheet I wrote down all the used parts and samples in the presets. The list is structured as a database, so with a little knowledge of Excel one can sort the list by different aspects. For me it is very helpfull to clear my NS2 memory , presets or samples, I don't use. And to write down my own presets.

Please find the attached Excel sheet at the end of the posting.


Again, the NordStage is a great instrument, I really like to play it. I love it's sample library and it makes it's way in the band. The mates love it also.
It gives some kind of feeling back of a very creative time in the 70's and 80's.
The NordStage is exclusive but pricey.
For this reason Clavia should put a lot of care to the 'little things' also. Just my 2 cents.

In the thread "NS2 Wish List ..." I'll post some suggestions to Clavia for making the instrument just a little better.


At least I have one question:
If I sample a sound from another manufacturers synth (for instance Roland JV series), may I post this and make availlable to other users in this forum?

Have a nice evening and fun playing your music.

Bernard

[Johannes]

Hi Bernard and welcome!
Great review and I see you already dug into the depth of your new instruments.
I agree about the point of presets, never used the ones on the EX a lot, they are just a general demonstration of different sounds rather than a practical collection of sounds in my opinion. Moreover, they do not even cover the whole range of sounds possible with this instrument.
Great job your list of patches with all settings and samples included!! Must have been a lot of work
In particular seeing which sample is used is nice. Unfortunately this is not possible in the Nord Software (see here: http://www.norduserforum.com/nord-stage ... html#p6200 for a little piece of software that goes in this direction)

If I sample a sound from another manufacturers synth (for instance Roland JV series), may I post this and make availlable to other users in this forum?

There should be no problem if you don't use commercial VSTis, so the JV/XP series should be fine! (see http://www.norduserforum.com/forum_rule ... nd_samples).

About your issue with the black keys, hmm, never heard of it. What exactly is the kind of noise? Could be the squeaking described in several other threads which can be fixed, or even go away with some weeks of use. On my NS EX 73, thee black keys had only some squeaky keys that I fixed by moving the springs a little.

Cheers,
Johannes

[lennaerttol]

Hi Bernard,

Welcome to this forum. You're welcome here and we'll try to give a good answer to all your questions. I've tried to give good answers to a few of your questions.

All in all the instruments hardware quality is superb. But I never had or own a keyboard (and I have a lot, even cheap ones) where the black keys are creaking like an old staircase. I own the Compact version with 73 waterfall keys and it's drinving me crazy when playing with moderate loudness at home. Playing at rehearsal with the band or on stage of course one can't hear it.
Maybe some people with the same keyboard can confirm it.
Perhaps it's only the lack of some grease, but I don't want to open the instrument because of warranty.

I own a Nord Electro 3 73 which has the same keys and makes a lot of sound too. I hope you'll get used to it.

The other thing is the memory.
Guys, we live in 2011. 16GB USB-Sticks are about 10 Euros.
Even if they (Clavia) don't want to expand the internal memory, where is the problem to implement a USB connector for expanding the memory? Not only for sample space (maybe too slow), but also for preset backups, firmware, system settings and so on. Even Roland can handle it at their cheap Gaia, where a USB stick can double the internal memory.
It's a shame for Clavia.

I don't remember the exact reason, but I think Clavia just can't put more memory in the keyboards. I don't care about the memory, because I only use one grand piano, upright piano, rhodes, wurlitzer etc.

At least I have one question:
If I sample a sound from another manufacturers synth (for instance Roland JV series), may I post this and make availlable to other users in this forum?

Have a nice evening and fun playing your music.

As far as I know, posting your own samples is allowed and you'll make other people happy by doing it. There is a subforum here where you can post your samples.

[DJKeys]

Guys, we live in 2011. 16GB USB-Sticks are about 10 Euros.
Even if they (Clavia) don't want to expand the internal memory, where is the problem to implement a USB connector for expanding the memory? Not only for sample space (maybe too slow), but also for preset backups, firmware, system settings and so on. Even Roland can handle it at their cheap Gaia, where a USB stick can double the internal memory.

-The memory used in the Nord Machines is Flash Rom. It is what allows all of the their samples to be instantly loaded. It is much more expensive to implement than standard memory.

[Frantz]

If Steve Jobs was playing keyboard, maybe he would make a phone call to Hans Nordelius so they could use some more flash memory like the one on a MacBook :

But maybe it is not persistent enough or needs too much power to persist so you don't loose the sounds when you switch off the Nord for 2 months ?

[Ritchie333]

... I never had or own a keyboard (and I have a lot, even cheap ones) where the black keys are creaking like an old staircase. I own the Compact version with 73 waterfall keys and it's drinving me crazy when playing with moderate loudness at home. Playing at rehearsal with the band or on stage of course one can't hear it.

Yes, I've noticed this as well. As you say, you can't tell in a gig situation, but certain black keys seem quite frail and I'm worried they'd snap at one point. I wonder if this is just a teething problem with manufacturing or whether it's something more fundamental with the parts they're ordering for the SW73 keyboard.

[Bernard]

Thank you guys for your replies and welcome.

@Johannes

your absolutely right, aside from the factory presets, the NS is able to create very colorful sounds.

Regarding the black keys, what can I say? Squeeking and creaking when you move the keys a little bit to the left or right.
Every Key. Seems to be normal, as lennaerttol and Ritchie333 confirm.
I will write to Clavia to see if they come with a practiable solution.
If they don't I will open the instrument. I'm very familiar with electronics, I've built big modular synths.
Maybe someone can give some hints to open the enclosure carefully.

Thanks also for the hints regarding user-samples.
Before I bought the NS2, I played a Roland XP30 on stage. Some of its 1400 sounds have to find their way into the Nordstage.


@lennaerttol and Ritchie333

If I find a solution with the black keys, I will post to you.


Regarding the memory, I see, a USB-Stick isn't flash memory. The size of the internal memory isn't really a problem to me (by now ), but I think the possibility of connecting a stick would be useful and contemporary. Even for backup issues, I don't go with a computer on stage (maybe *this* is unfashionable ).

Bernard

[Bernard]

But maybe it is not persistent enough or needs too much power to persist so you don't loose the sounds when you switch off the Nord for 2 months ?

You switch off your Nord for 2 months?

btw, did you notice a stick loosing its data after 2 months?

cheers,
Bernard

[Frantz]

A stick is not the same type of flash, would be too slow into a Nord I think.
I did not but that could happen maybe in a year or two
I have it since about one month !!
I know it was in stock during july in the shop, it was off.

[Ecaroh]

Bernard's first post said it very clearly.

I agree that Clavia's keyboard (both hammer action and waterfall) are very noisy. This is annoying especially if you want to play at home with low volume. Hammer action could be also little more heavier for a piano player. But it's matter of taste: for a E-piano player this probably more close to Rhodes which is nice. Some passages (especially in my left hand) are difficult to control because of this light and little loose action.

Then the sounds (presets): they are horrible if you think that they should give you a nice presentation of what this instrument can do. IMO Clavia should really make better work there.

Then there's question about the memory (which has been discussed a lot earlier): There should be more memory to at least have few more those new XL-pianos into it at same time.

Finaly I'd repeat my major critic and disappointment with new NS: Sample player should really have change to use velocity layers. Without this option (most of) those sounds are far from nowadays standard.

This critic been said, still I like my NS2; It's not perfect but still probably the best solution for me at the moment. I really hope that Clavia takes these remarks seriously and make improvements in future...