Stage Classic vs NS2 ?? (Help please)

[pablomastodon]

Yes, and when Stage EX came out, Stage Classic programs would work on it. NS2 programs work on the new NS2EX. But you can't load a DX7 program into the DX9, DX11, DX21, DX27, or DX100 models which came after the DX7, nor onto a Motif for that matter. As Bruce Hornsby sang, "That's Just The Way It Is."

Bless,

Pablo

[Graspieper]

Although I've sold my Kurzweil recently in favour of a Nord Stage 2,
one must give credit to Kurzweil for keeping their file formats compatible..
It would be nice if a future NS3 could read NS2 programs...

[Spider]

Although I've sold my Kurzweil recently in favour of a Nord Stage 2,
one must give credit to Kurzweil for keeping their file formats compatible..
It would be nice if a future NS3 could read NS2 programs...

it's a kinda apples-and-oranges comparison.

Nord's file formats are already compatible across instruments. A nord piano file can be used on any instrument capable of reading them, from a 10-year-old Stage Classic to the latest Nord Pianos and Electros. Same for the Sample Library files.
When a new file version is issued, Nord updates the OS of old instruments to make them able to read the new file format.

The programs, instead, are strictly instrument-specific, as they don't comprise only the sounds, but also all the instrument settings (slots, effects, pedal-wheel-morph settings, etc).
You can't import Stage Classic programs into a Stage 2 or into an Electro, because they're different instruments, there will be things that the other instruments just can't recognize because they lack some specific hardware feature (mod wheel info on a wheel-less keyboard, sample library data on an instrument without sample playback capability, etc etc)

[Spider]

Thanks Pablo,

Sure yes, some of the (say) PAD patches do sound great if placed in MONO and TRANSPOSED down an octave; hence turning it into a BASS patch! And similarly, TRANSPOSING a BASS patch up an octave and placing it in POLY also works to the same principle. So everything (in the SYNTH engine is transferable and interchangeable, if you like).

But is the NS2 SOUND MANAGER the same as the NSC MANAGER please? Or is it somewhat more sophisticated?

I have not ever tried drag&droppin' sounds within the SYNTH library. I never thought about that method before (because I have been quite content with where all of the SYNTH library sounds are by default). I have only ever used drag&drop facility for the PIANO library.

Yes, the NSC has 99 x locations for each of the three SYNTH library subdivisions. So 297 total.

I modified (in some way or another) ALL of the factory BASS sounds on the NSC to suit my needs/taste. And have everything (original/default) backed up (as you imply).

But as I say, I am concerned that, on the NS2, there are not many actual BASSES onboard. Yes, I know I could create my own by editing some of the FACTORY DEFAULTS; but having (as on the NSC) 99 or so to play with as a starting point right off the bat really makes things more appetising and convenient. Secondly, is it not possible (knowing NORD it probably isn't!) to IMPORT NSC SYNTH sounds directly into the SYNTH section (not the SAMPLER) of a NS2?

Thanks a lot,

Paul

The Sound Manager is the same for all Nord instruments, you use it exactly in the same way (except of course in the Classic you won't have the "Sample" section available)

the Stage 2 has around 200 preset synth programs, the remaining 100 or so are empty slots for the user.
No there's no dedicated "bass" category, but there are more than a few basses around, you can find the complete list here
http://www.nordkeyboards.com/sound-libr ... ory-sounds
(open the "Nord Stage 2 Factory Synth Bank v1.6 revA.zip" link under the "FACTORY SOUND BANKS" title)

Anyway, I don't think there are 99 bass sounds, so I agree the Stage2 is somewhat "poorer" than the Classic in this respect.
You will probably have to do some tweaking and programming to get all the sounds you want.

TIP#1: write down manually the settings of your NSC synth sounds, before you sell it! It will be a boring job, I know, and yes, the architecture of the two synth sections is very different, but the Stage2 gives you much more control on the parameters, with a bit of trial-and-error you should be able to reproduce your favourite sounds almost exactly, even if you cannot import the old programs.
(The best thing would be to sit down with the two instruments side-by-side so you can directly compare the sounds by ear, this would give you the desired results much more quickly. But I don't know if you'll be able to buy the Stage2 before selling the Classic)

TIP#2: don't underestimate the power of having a sample player controlled by the synth section: starting from a sample and tweaking it with the filters, LFO, evelopes and effects of the synth can yield REALLY interesting and surprising results.
Initially I dismissed this feature, using the samples as "pure" samples and the synth as a "pure" synth. But once I started digging into the hybrid synth-sample engine, I realized that the sonic possibilities are really endless!

[monsterjazzlicks]

Hello Spider,

Nord's file formats are already compatible across instruments. A nord piano file can be used on any instrument capable of reading them, from a 10-year-old Stage Classic to the latest Nord Pianos and Electros. Same for the Sample Library files.

When a new file version is issued, Nord updates the OS of old instruments to make them able to read the new file format.

The programs, instead, are strictly instrument-specific, as they don't comprise only the sounds, but also all the instrument settings (slots, effects, pedal-wheel-morph settings, etc).

Thanks a lot man.

Ok, so the PIANO's are cross compatible, though of course being able to load/access them depends upon the SIZE of MEMORY on one's instrument.

My NSC is on OS v5.04 (I think it is?). This has not changed for at least over 3 x years (if I remember correctly)?

I see now on the fact that PROGRAMS are specific to each DEVICE thanks.

Best,

Paul

[monsterjazzlicks]

Thanks very much indeed Spider,

The Sound Manager is the same for all Nord instruments, you use it exactly in the same way (except of course in the Classic you won't have the "Sample" section available)

the Stage 2 has around 200 preset synth programs, the remaining 100 or so are empty slots for the user.

No there's no dedicated "bass" category, but there are more than a few basses around, you can find the complete list here
http://www.nordkeyboards.com/sound-libr ... ory-sounds
(open the "Nord Stage 2 Factory Synth Bank v1.6 revA.zip" link under the "FACTORY SOUND BANKS" title)

Anyway, I don't think there are 99 bass sounds, so I agree the Stage2 is somewhat "poorer" than the Classic in this respect.
You will probably have to do some tweaking and programming to get all the sounds you want.

So when you connect a NS2 to your PC (via USB) the SOUNDS MANAGER recognises (in my case) the device is NOT a NSC and so the SAMPLE LIBRARY SLOT appears. Therefore the SOUND MANAGER is the same in which (my) case, there is no need to UNINSTALL and RE-INSTALL an alternative SOUND MANAGER.

So NORD have loaded 200 x SYNTH SOUNDS (not SAMPLES) onboard the NS2 but they are all bundled into 1 x SLOT (ie not categorized or in any order as such)? And then there is a SECOND SLOT which is a USER BANK (with 100 x locations) and, hence, it is EMPTY. Or is it just 1 x SLOT with 300 x locations, of which 100 of them are EMPTY?

Cheers for the LINK. But will I be able to open/look at the contents even though I don't have a NS2?

Much appreciated,

Paul

[pablomastodon]

A word on Spider's excellent post: I have spent some time trying to "translate" synth programs from Classic/EX to NS2 and have gotten mixed results. Some sounds were relatively easy to duplicate, while others were quite elusive or even impossible In at least one instance, I was able to get the NS2 version quite close to the tonal aspects of the Classic/EX version, and it sounded just fine alone, but when compared side by side to the older program, the NS2 version sounded flat and lifeless where the Classic/EX just exploded with meaty textures.

That exercise taught me a new-found respect for the synth section on the Classic/EX, which is perhaps often overlooked. I'd say that 80% of the time I was able to achieve good results just from using similar settings.

Bless,

Pablo


Response to Paul's more recent post (we were both writing at the same time, apparently):

The synth programs all appear in one single "bank" with lots of empty spaces. Some will disagree that these empty spaces make the instrument "poorer." Because of the commonly held notion (and I will confess that I struggle with this, too) that original factory programming is sacred and that losing/erasing a bit of factory programming is a tragedy, some may feel that the existence of empty spaces actually makes the instrument "richer" in the same way that having Banks A and D be identical does. There are "blank pages" on which one can mess around without disturbing anything that's already there.

[monsterjazzlicks]

Hi again,

TIP#1: write down manually the settings of your NSC synth sounds, before you sell it! It will be a boring job, I know, and yes, the architecture of the two synth sections is very different, but the Stage2 gives you much more control on the parameters, with a bit of trial-and-error you should be able to reproduce your favourite sounds almost exactly, even if you cannot import the old programs.
(The best thing would be to sit down with the two instruments side-by-side so you can directly compare the sounds by ear, this would give you the desired results much more quickly. But I don't know if you'll be able to buy the Stage2 before selling the Classic)

TIP#2: don't underestimate the power of having a sample player controlled by the synth section: starting from a sample and tweaking it with the filters, LFO, evelopes and effects of the synth can yield REALLY interesting and surprising results.
Initially I dismissed this feature, using the samples as "pure" samples and the synth as a "pure" synth. But once I started digging into the hybrid synth-sample engine, I realized that the sonic possibilities are really endless!

Great TIP#1, but unfortunately, the NSC would have to be set free to raise funds for the replacement model.

To be honest, I never really thought too much about the SAMPLER. And also, as far as I was aware, many people dismiss the SAMPLER as being somewhat under par as well as the NORD SAMPLE LIBRARY samples sounding thin/weak. I have NOT played any of the SAMPLES in the flesh though. However, I once did listen to many of the demonstrations on the NORD website, and I did feel (esp. the BRASS and STRINGS) were quite not particularly competitive sounding!

Ta,

Paul

[RedLeo]

A general word on migrating to a new model or brand of keyboard:

We all have a body of work that we've built up on own current machines, and, after the glaze of gearlust has subsided, we all realise the horrible truth: all our existing sounds are in jeopardy when upgrade to our new izzy-wizzy wonder-machines. We have library sounds, sets for any number of live bands, banks of sounds for studio projects - and then there all the sound backups on your computer, half of which you have long forgotten what they are or what's in them.

And then comes the desperate search for ways to port them to your new keyboard. Usually futile. A few manufacturers do provide the opportunity to port from one model to another within their own products, but that's the exception rather than the rule.

Rather than howling at the moon, it's better to face the facts: Your old work is toast, your signature sounds are going to be left behind forever, your favourite sounds that inspire you to write will be lost to you for good.

And that's ok. It's a simple matter of embracing the "swings and roundabouts" philosophy. Your new keyboard will give you, in compensation for your losses, a whole new world to enjoy. After a few months, all those old sounds that you thought were essential to your continued survival will be largely forgotten and you will wonder what you were fussing was about.

There will be some stuff that you will still miss. There will probably be a ton of tedious re-programming of sounds and setups for live work especially. This is where a knowledge of sound and synth programming will be invaluable; if you know how your sounds are created, you can usually rebuild essential sounds without too much trouble. And even if you don't have that knowledge, almost all keyboards come with extensive sound libraries on board - chances are you'll find at least acceptable substitutes for almost anything, and you'll find a wealth of brand new and improved sounds that your old keyboard just couldn't do - after all, that's why you decided to upgrade in the first place, right? Even if you're actually downgrading for reasons of weight, size or budget, you'll find a ton of useful stuff on practically any keyboard these days.

You'll always miss something about old girlfriend - her cute smile or curly hair, but new girlfriend is a whole new adventure.

And never compare new girlfriend to old girlfriend, especially not in her hearing. They never forget and they never forgive. They will have their revenge. And in oh-so-many subtle and spiteful ways... I am actually talking about women now, not keyboards. Just a heads-up

[monsterjazzlicks]

Cheers Pablo,

In at least one instance, I was able to get the NS2 version quite close to the tonal aspects of the Classic/EX version, and it sounded just fine alone, but when compared side by side to the older program, the NS2 version sounded flat and lifeless where the Classic/EX just exploded with meaty textures. That exercise taught me a new-found respect for the synth section on the Classic/EX, which is perhaps often overlooked. I'd say that 80% of the time I was able to achieve good results just from using similar settings.

The synth programs all appear in one single "bank" with lots of empty spaces. Some will disagree that these empty spaces make the instrument "poorer." Because of the commonly held notion (and I will confess that I struggle with this, too) that original factory programming is sacred and that losing/erasing a bit of factory programming is a tragedy, some may feel that the existence of empty spaces actually makes the instrument "richer" in the same way that having Banks A and D be identical does. There are "blank pages" on which one can mess around without disturbing anything that's already there.

That was quite interesting to hear about your back2back programming and comparing of the NSC/NS2 SYNTH sections.

Can you RE-ORDER the SYNTH library programs though? I mean, so (in the SOUND MANAGER) grab all of the BASSES (however many there are) and place them in the first (say) 50 x locations (1~50); then place all of the PADS and place them in the next 50 x locations (51~100) etc? Or would this (relocating) MESS UP all of the sounds when you call them up again? I think you will know what I mean here; a bit like on the YAMAHA DX's where, if you changed all the locations of the RAM presets, you would completely MESS UP your PERFORMANCE PATCHES!

Best,

Paul