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Anyway, I've noticed in the manual that it says the outputs on the Piano are unbalanced and therefore it makes sense that I should use unbalanced Jack-XLR cables to connect to my monitors. Without dimantling the cables is there a way to determine whether or not my cables are balanced or unbalanced as I've had them stored away for years and can't remember what they are? In reality for studio playing (not recording) does it really matter?
Cheers
Last edited by snerkler on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
snerkler wrote:How many questions can one person ask?
Anyway, I've noticed in the manual that it says the outputs on the Piano are unbalanced and therefore it makes sense that I should use unbalanced Jack-XLR cables to connect to my monitors. Without dimantling the cables is there a way to determine whether or not my cables are balanced or unbalanced as I've had them stored away for years and can't remember what they are? In reality for studio playing (not recording) does it really matter?
Cheers
Hello snerkler,
I've have asked a seemingly endless supply of questions myself...so I hope that there isn't a limit.
I'm assuming that your XLR cables have a 1/4" plug on one end.
If so, then the plug will either be TRS "Tip, Ring, Sleeve"... Top example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS_connector
Or TS "Tip, Sleeve" like a regular guitar cord....Bottom example
If it is TS, it has been connected in one end of the cable or the other, as an unbalanced connection already, and will work.
If it is TRS, I don't believe that it will work without modification, since the audio signal is expected to be at #2 and #3.
The NP jack has the signal at #1 and #3
I hope this helps.
Cheers, Hanon
Last edited by Hanon_CTS on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
Thanks again. Well mine are the same as the top example with the 2 black bands on, so TRS. However, they do still work and it sounds fine to me. I'll get myself some of the unbalanced ones and see if I can tell any difference.
Last edited by snerkler on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
snerkler wrote:Thanks again. Well mine are the same as the top example with the 2 black bands on, so TRS. However, they do still work and it sounds fine to me. I'll get myself some of the unbalanced ones and see if I can tell any difference.
Because your existing cables work, there won't be any advantage to changing them out.
If your cable run is 15 feet or less to the mixer (amp, or PA) you won't be able to tell the difference between balanced and unbalanced.
I'll file this away for memory, that the TRS work properly in the NP jacks.
Cheers, Hanon
Last edited by Hanon_CTS on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
snerkler wrote:Thanks again. Well mine are the same as the top example with the 2 black bands on, so TRS. However, they do still work and it sounds fine to me. I'll get myself some of the unbalanced ones and see if I can tell any difference.
Because your existing cables work, there won't be any advantage to changing them out.
If your cable run is 15 feet or less to the mixer (amp, or PA) you won't be able to tell the difference between balanced and unbalanced.
I'll file this away for memory, that the TRS work properly in the NP jacks.
Cheers, Hanon
OK, thanks. I'm probably going to get some new cables anyway as the ones I have are too long and just looks a mess with cables trailing everywhere. As I'm buying some more I may as well get unbalanced.
Last edited by snerkler on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
How can cables be so confusing? I've just been on the hunt for some unbalanced cables due to the Nord Piano output being unbalanced. However, the only unbalanced 1/4" Jack to XLR cables I can find are mono, but the output of the NP88 is stereo. Can you get stereo unbalanced cables?
Cheers
Last edited by snerkler on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
IMHO there are NO stereo cables with XLR plugs since XLR is always mono (and used for balanced transmission). Therefore, XLR plugs always need two cables to run stereo (dunno which Monitor you are using but if it is a stereo system, it should have a stereo input and if it has a small mixer included, you would need two channels with two XLR-Jack cables and pan them hard left and right respectively.
So if you can go stereo (as you mentioned, the NP does, so it remains to see whether your PA/Monitors are "true" stereo), you would need two cables Jack TS to XLR and it should work.
If your PA/Monitors are Mono, then just use the Left/Mono out with one of the mentioned TS Jack - XLR cables and that's it. Then, you might try to use the MONO feature of the NP in order to see if it improves your sound.
The reason why your balanced cable is also working is quite simple given the balancing technique. Basically, the signal on the Ring-Part of the Jack plug is inverted and summed with the Tip-Signal. When you connect the Jack to the Left or Right Outputs (which are Mono be themselves), the Ring is empty or grounded and therefore the balancing will have no effect (apart from noise and balancing summation, but it should not be a big deal).
If you use the headphone output on the other hand, the Ring has one channel and therefore a balanced input would cancel out most of the frequencies (due to the inversion of the signal of one channel) and you should only hear a very thin signal basically consisting of the difference between L and R.
Sorry if that is not very clear, but if you have further questions, it would be good to know what Monitor you are using and which connectors of the NP you are using.
Cheers, Johannes
Last edited by Johannes on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
IMHO there are NO stereo cables with XLR plugs since XLR is always mono (and used for balanced transmission). Therefore, XLR plugs always need two cables to run stereo (dunno which Monitor you are using but if it is a stereo system, it should have a stereo input and if it has a small mixer included, you would need two channels with two XLR-Jack cables and pan them hard left and right respectively.
So if you can go stereo (as you mentioned, the NP does, so it remains to see whether your PA/Monitors are "true" stereo), you would need two cables Jack TS to XLR and it should work.
If your PA/Monitors are Mono, then just use the Left/Mono out with one of the mentioned TS Jack - XLR cables and that's it. Then, you might try to use the MONO feature of the NP in order to see if it improves your sound.
The reason why your balanced cable is also working is quite simple given the balancing technique. Basically, the signal on the Ring-Part of the Jack plug is inverted and summed with the Tip-Signal. When you connect the Jack to the Left or Right Outputs (which are Mono be themselves), the Ring is empty or grounded and therefore the balancing will have no effect (apart from noise and balancing summation, but it should not be a big deal).
If you use the headphone output on the other hand, the Ring has one channel and therefore a balanced input would cancel out most of the frequencies (due to the inversion of the signal of one channel) and you should only hear a very thin signal basically consisting of the difference between L and R.
Sorry if that is not very clear, but if you have further questions, it would be good to know what Monitor you are using and which connectors of the NP you are using.
Cheers, Johannes
Thanks for your reply. I didn't know there was a mono feature on the NP (note to self, must read the manual), so will try that. I've got Alesis Prolinear 720 (not the new 720R), which I've been using for my home DJing for several years, as well as home studio. They are active near field monitors. It appears that my cables are TRS, and use 1/4" jack to XLR cables, one from the left output to the left monitor, and one from the right output to the right monitor. There is only one XLR input on each monitor. The sound clarity is excellent but find that my brain struggles to cope with the stereo effect ( ) and I get sound fatigued pretty quickly. I'll try the mono feature and see if my brain can cope with that better
Last edited by snerkler on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
"my brain struggles to cope with the stereo effect" ... hehe, many players long for true stereo
Actually, since the Alesis Prolinear 720 has combo inputs, you could use simple Mono Jacks for either speaker and avoid the whole balanced or not issues.
Good luck!
Last edited by Johannes on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
Johannes wrote:"my brain struggles to cope with the stereo effect" ... hehe, many players long for true stereo
Actually, since the Alesis Prolinear 720 has combo inputs, you could use simple Mono Jacks for either speaker and avoid the whole balanced or not issues.
Good luck!
The prolinear 720 only have an XLR input, there's no jack input unless it's hidden.
I've figured out a certain part of the problem, and it doesnt seem to be a stereo vs mono issue. I've set the monitors up so I'm sat in the 'sweet spot' but obviously when you're playing you're moving about and so constantly moving in and out of the 'sweet spot'. If I try and position the monitors so I'm outside the 'sweet spot' the sound is too seperated. I guess this is the drawback with nearfield monitors. I will continue to 'play about' and find the answer.
For playing at home would I be better of having monitors that aren't nearfield, or maybe even just hooking it up through a 'standard' stereo, or is it worth persevering with the monitors I have?
Last edited by snerkler on 31 Jul 2012, 12:24, edited 2 times in total.
