Isn't it time for more flexible velocity curves?

[michael_C1]

And one of the main points from user view was the velocity! Well i do not remember when but a year later or so Nord piano 2 came out !!!!! And guess what.... Layers and an extra velocity curve..... Well that was exactly what we that bought NP1 wanted all along so we where left standing in the dirt ;( Anyway i really hope that Clavia will develop something for us piano players that makes it possible to change the velocity curves to better suit playing all kind of styles

As far as I'm aware, you're not missing anything from the Nord Piano 2 as far as velocity layers, they're identical, and there's no extra velocity layer.

To me it sounds better, more dynamic playing through the Casio...but I wonder if that's really the case.

I have the feeling that, beyond the compressed response from the Nord keyboard, Nord piano samples may also be more compressed than piano samples from other keyboards or, perhaps, Nord piano samples don't include velocity layers for ppp and fff due to size or quality issues

No doubt a compressed sound is better in a higher volume ensemble setting where I venture the majority of use is probably had for both keyboards.

Yes, a good controller definitely DOES make the Nord sound more dynamic. There is definitely a change in tone at very soft dynamics- the tone is more mellow. Whether that's the result of filtering or the sound of the samples themselves I don't know, but it's effective.

I'm not so sure that the majority of Nord Piano users play in high volume ensembles. Nord Stage users maybe, but I think straight ahead piano players are more likely to be soloists, accompanists, jazz and classical players as well as rockers. Which reinforces why more flexible velocity control is essential, because the more exposed and center stage the piano is, the more responsive to playing technique it needs to be.

[bluesbaba]

Clavia made one extra velocity curve available for NP2 (only) as a download!!!
Though according to Mr.Ferris it did not make a big difference ;(

[michael_C1]

Clavia made one extra velocity curve available for NP2 (only) as a download!!!
Though according to Mr.Ferris it did not make a big difference ;(

Ah ha! I didn't know that!

[fccmt]

[/quote]

There's no argument from me. And an acoustic piano hammer is needled differently for different depths of the felt, so that playing softly gives a mellower tone, and playing harder reaches a hammer depth that's harder/more dense and the tone is therefore brighter.

Unlike on an acoustic piano, we can't reach the softer dynamics of Nord's excellent sampled pianos with their present velocity curves- unless we use the una corda pedal, which as you say, wasn't intended for that, or else if we do a MIDI loopback with some method of velocity adjustment in-between.[/quote][/quote]

I was trying to achieve that with the triple pedal, better dynamics/expression/different tones…more truthful to "real piano". Does it make the nord piano sound "more real"/similar? You already said that pressing the soft pedal mellows the tone and that's a good! the bad part of the equation still is the dynamics…

due to the lack of the dynamics nord pianos and IMHO always seem a little on the edge/screamers...I hope nord will work something out...

[michael_C1]

I was trying to achieve that with the triple pedal, better dynamics/expression/different tones…more truthful to "real piano". Does it make the nord piano sound "more real"/similar? ...[/quote]

The Nord Piano sounds pretty realistic right now, and improved velocity curve control would make it respond more dynamically, closer to the way a real acoustic piano responds. The Triple Pedal can't do that, and that's not it's purpose.

[michael_C1]

Below is an example of one way to get enhanced velocity curves with software. Both Logic and Cubase have transformer functions that might serve the same purpose, but here I've used Cantabile. In order to do this it's necessary to MIDI out to a PC then MIDI back into the Nord (local control set to OFF):

[michael_C1]

Hopefully the above is a temporary solution. It's questionable how many Nord owners would want to bother hooking up the additional gear on a gig. We like our all-in-one Nord's and the reliability of a simple hookup. However, it's really a pleasure to play a Nord Piano with a tweaked velocity curve

For now, I reserve this setup for studio recording, and the onboard Nord velocity curves are used on gigs.

[jimmyjames]

There was an interesting post today in the Casio forum related to this topic. Someone was making a similar complaint when they tested the PX-5S that they were unable to reach the higher and lower ends in MIDI values. Another user responded by reminding this person that velocity is not a function of how hard you strike the keys but, instead how quickly or slowly. He suggested a test by manually limiting the velocity for the Casio to the extreme ranges of MIDI values. I took this concept and applied to my NE4 by connecting it to the Casio via MIDI and then setting the Casio to only transmit, first a minimum value of 110 to maximum 127 and then, second with a minimum of 0 and max of 20. Indeed, no sound came out when striking very soft or hard but at roughly the same speed...but when I depressed a key very quickly in the first case and VERY slowly in the second case, the Nord produced sound. So, no doubt Nords can respond to the full range of MIDI values but, at the upper and lower ends, the concept of velocity is similar but does not produce the same response as say a real piano. If I struck a real piano as slowly as I struck the Casio to get sound with a MIDI value less than 20, a real piano would make no sound. I'm guessing solving this issue is on the list of engineers who are trying to make the digital piano experience even more realistic...especially for classical and/or jazz players.

[bluesbaba]

Clavia ! Clavia ! Clavia !
To keep this thread alive
The other thing that we cold fix with velocity curves is the problem when soloing,
right hand side is to quiet compared to left !
Is that correct ?

[michael_C1]

Another user responded by reminding this person that velocity is not a function of how hard you strike the keys but, instead how quickly or slowly... So, no doubt Nords can respond to the full range of MIDI values but, at the upper and lower ends, the concept of velocity is similar but does not produce the same response as say a real piano. If I struck a real piano as slowly as I struck the Casio to get sound with a MIDI value less than 20, a real piano would make no sound. I'm guessing solving this issue is on the list of engineers who are trying to make the digital piano experience even more realistic...especially for classical and/or jazz players.

Sounds like an interesting post. And add to that the inherent limitations of the 0-127 MIDI velocity specification, which gives us nowhere near the level of sensitivity an acoustic piano is capable of.

But regarding the practical aspects of velocity, meaning the tonal and volume changes possible at different playing velocities, different velocity curves can allow us to reach the upper and lower tonal and volume limits without our having to play unnaturally. If the speed and intensity of our playing were to remain constant we'd still get different levels of sensitivity with different curves.