SysEx - Should I get into that?

[Nawave]

Hello!
I'm a real beginner with the synths and home recording, and I was wondering if at some point I would need to get into the SysEx file world. I don't understand what these type of files are useful for, but i hear people that are synth pros talking about how they use those files. the proplem is it seems a bit complex, related to programming, which i find difficult to understand. Should I make the effort?

thanks in advance. i know it seems a silly topic.

[Nawave]

Hej Nawave!

I'm also a beginner, doing occasional gigs and home recordings.
I deal with SysEx files sometimes; downloading and uploading stuff to my NL2X.
Because I get them in SysEx format. My other gear does not.
The tools I use are Midi Tool Box (iPad, iOS) or SysEx Librarian (Mac, OS X).
I never see any details, you probably don't need to either, the tools take care of that.
Just like MIDI nowadays. Depending on your gear, you probably don't need SysEx knowledge.



/Amicalement
Michael in Scania

[OBDave]

I kinda doubt that you'll find it necessary with the Nords.

Sysex Messages are a way of wrapping manufacturer-specific messages up in a special kind of MIDI message. The header of this message indicates the manufacturer and the model of the instrument it's intended for. So if you have a bunch of instruments all daisy chained together listening to the same MIDI stream, the SYSEX message is ignored by everyone except the specific synth it's intended for. So Rolands will ignore Sysex messages intended for Korg, Nord, Yamaha, etc. Furthermore, a Roland D-50 will ignore Sysex messages intended for a Roland FA-07.

There is no real-time information in a Sysex message, it's all setup information: synth parameters, filter cutoff frequencies, that sort of thing. Where it comes up in a studio context is that you might have a MIDI sequence that sends a bunch of synth setup stuff at the beginning, before any note information appears. Some synths rely quite heavily on this stuff but to my knowledge I don't think the Nords do. For most home recordists, it's enough to send bank select and program changes to bring up the correct patch, and then the rest of the performance information can commence.

I just don't think you need to worry about it. The important thing is to make sure that the beginning of your sequence initializes controllers like sustain pedal, pitch bend, Leslie speed, and so on.

[Nawave]

Sysex is just a language between 2 same brand and model midied electronic instrument.
Generally used to exchange blocks of data.
Because the amount of memory needed by these blocks, sequencers used to include a filter to choose when record sysex or not. Lovelys 80's!! Marlowes and OBDave : let me something to say!!!

[analogika]

It is not correct to say that Sysex doesn't contain any real-time information.

Many pieces of gear transmit and receive parameter changes in real time via Sysex. That way, you can play a synth into a sequencer and record front-panel editing (say, a filter sweep) into a sequencer for later playback.

All edit parameters on synths like the JX-8P or the Oberheim Matrix series can be controlled via Sysex - the former in real time, the latter only partially, as the CPU chokes on too many parameter changes.

[Nawave]

As ably explained above by Michael, Dave and Leo, sysex files are basically a way of storing and transmitting instrument setups, programs, parameter settings and such. You don't really need to have any deep understanding of the overall subject of sysex to use it.

Your main use for sysex, if you use it at all, would probably be to embed copies of programs into your sequences. As Dave mentioned, it can be enough to simply include a program change message in your sequence to make a record of which program you used to play a particular part in your sequence. Suppose you record a song called "Nawave" and you use program #37 on your Wave to play the lead line in the intro. Including a program change command for #37 in your sequence will ensure that every time you load and play that sequence you will hear the intro lead line exactly the way you want to.

Now suppose that you are poking around on the Nord website and you decide you wish to audition some different programs on your instrument, so you delete a bunch of programs on your Wave and load in the Chris Martirano FM bank. Sounds great. Except now something else is in program #37 so when you load and play "Nawave" your wickedly awesome intro lead line now sounds like a farting cow (apologies to Chris). You're screwed unless you can get that old program #37 back. Another scenario is if you jump on a plane and fly to an LA studio where superstar music producers are waiting to hear your song and they have a Wave there in the studio waiting for you -- but they have something different loaded into #37.

If you embed a copy of program #37 into your sequence (any respectable DAW can handle this), those problems can never arise. That is what a sysex file can do for you. Ten years from now, after you've programmed and re-programmed your Wave dozens of times, you will still be able to play "Nawave" to sound the same as it did the day it was born.

These days most folks recording stuff in home studios will simply go ahead and "print" their sequences to audio -- that is, record an audio track of the synth playing the intro lead line. Then they don't have to care what happens with program #37, so long as no one ever wants to replay the line or use the same program for something else. As a result, the number of people bothering with sysex stuff gets smaller and smaller with each passing year. Anyway, if you think of sysex as a vehicle which can get you where you want to go, all you need to know is how to turn the key and push on the gas pedal (I guess steering might help, too!), you don't need to know how to replace the main bearings in the engine.

Bless,

Pablo

[Nawave]

Hi Analogika, the thing is that today filters and real time controls are asociated to a "midi control number" (like 7 is volume, 11 expression, 64 hold, 10 pan, etc) instead of sysex. Maybe because this way spend less memory and is easy to edit?
I can be wrong...

[Nawave]

THANKs!!!
I think I see the picture now. You really are GREAT people! I'm going to try to figure out how to do it with Nuendo 4, which is the DAW i use.
Greetings!

ps: Pablo, I definetely want to try the farting cow sound anyways.

[Nawave]

Nawave,

You will achieve a much greater sense of personal accomplishment from the farting cow sound if you accept the challenge to carry your mic and portable recorder out to a pasture somewhere and record that sound first hand. Just remember that audio volume follows the inverse square law, so you'll want to get as close as possible to the source... Then you can run it through Nord Sample Editor and post it here to share with the whole forum!

Bless,

Pablo

[OBDave]

It is not correct to say that Sysex doesn't contain any real-time information.

You're absolutely right. I don't know what I was thinking, especially since I recently added drawbar support for Kronos, Jupiter 80, and Fantom, all of which use Sysex.

I guess what I should have said is that I don't think Nord uses Sysex for realtime control. I *believe* that Nord maps everything to MIDI CCs, and only uses Sysex for (non-realtime) patch dumps.