NL2X: Single osc is louder than the mix of the two osc?

[mjbrands]

Well, what do you mean with the term 'thin'?

If I think of thin, I think of the opposite of fat - fat, for me, would probably be a sound that has a lot of harmonics in it; at least a lot should be going on. For example, a sine wave is about as far as you could get from 'fat' (= no harmonics and only a single, dull frequency) while a pulse wave would be pretty fat (lots of harmonics).

Unless you sync both oscillators, oscillator 2 will almost never be exactly the same frequency as oscillator 1; if the frequencies are fairly close I suppose this could manifest itself in some frequencies being amplified while some others might be dampened. If you increase the difference in frequency between OSC1 and OSC2 (with the mix set at 50-50), does it sound less thin to you?

Anyway, I'll leave it at this as I don't think I'm adding anything here.

[luizfbw]

Well, what do you mean with the term 'thin'?

If I think of thin, I think of the opposite of fat - fat, for me, would probably be a sound that has a lot of harmonics in it; at least a lot should be going on. For example, a sine wave is about as far as you could get from 'fat' (= no harmonics and only a single, dull frequency) while a pulse wave would be pretty fat (lots of harmonics).

Unless you sync both oscillators, oscillator 2 will almost never be exactly the same frequency as oscillator 1; if the frequencies are fairly close I suppose this could manifest itself in some frequencies being amplified while some others might be dampened. If you increase the difference in frequency between OSC1 and OSC2 (with the mix set at 50-50), does it sound less thin to you?

Anyway, I'll leave it at this as I don't think I'm adding anything here.

well dont need to leave im trying to understand it...

with u want to have a sine wave more fat with a square with 50 50% mix...fine works...but with u use the pure square wave it sound stronger,louder, when u mix 50% for what i notice, u lose agressivnes,power,volume, but u get a type of "unison" efect indeed...

[luizfbw]

i think it dependes of what u want...it indeeds "pad" or "fat" the sound....but with you want a cutting sound like TB303 u must use just one OSC...

what u say?i would like to learn more about nord2x...i have it for 1 wekk

[mjbrands]

but with you want a cutting sound like TB303 u must use just one OSC...

I think you're right if the frequencies of the oscillators is slightly different. If they're the same or if the frequencies are quite different (for example, freq of osc2 is 3x that of osc1).

Do you have some software that allows you to look at the waveforms in detail?

If you have a DAW (Ableton Live, Fruity Loops, Cubase, Logic, etc.) that can load VST or AU plugins, you can load a plugin that shows you the waveforms. Load the plugin, set your DAW to record and start tweaking the sound on your NL2X. The plugin will show you what the waveforms look like. This can be quite interesting, as you can both see and hear what kind of effect different functions have on the sound.

Here's a list with free plugins: http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2011/07 ... u-plugins/

I like s(M)exoscope: http://bram.smartelectronix.com/plugins.php?id=4 *(it is on the above list)

The video below shows s(M)exoscope (orange). The black rectangle below it is the frequency/spectrum analyser in Ableton Live 8. It is looking only at the sound of the Arturia Minibrute, not the drums. You can clearly see most of the sounds use more than one oscillator; for example, initially you see what looks to me like a sawtooth on two oscillators (with oscillator sync?). I think he's changing the speed of the second oscillator and as it gets closer to the frequency of the first oscillator, you start to hear this beating sound.

Notice some of the changes in the waveforms are due to filtering; it is fairly easy to hear this, but harder to recognize in the s(M)exoscope output. It is clearly visible in the spectrum analyser, for example at 1:42 - you see this 'hump' moving from a fairly low to much higher. And at 2:52 for example, you see the the filter being opened up and then closed again.

[luizfbw]

but with you want a cutting sound like TB303 u must use just one OSC...

I think you're right if the frequencies of the oscillators is slightly different. If they're the same or if the frequencies are quite different (for example, freq of osc2 is 3x that of osc1).

Do you have some software that allows you to look at the waveforms in detail?

If you have a DAW (Ableton Live, Fruity Loops, Cubase, Logic, etc.) that can load VST or AU plugins, you can load a plugin that shows you the waveforms. Load the plugin, set your DAW to record and start tweaking the sound on your NL2X. The plugin will show you what the waveforms look like. This can be quite interesting, as you can both see and hear what kind of effect different functions have on the sound.

Here's a list with free plugins: http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2011/07 ... u-plugins/

I like s(M)exoscope: http://bram.smartelectronix.com/plugins.php?id=4 *(it is on the above list)

The video below shows s(M)exoscope (orange). The black rectangle below it is the frequency/spectrum analyser in Ableton Live 8. It is looking only at the sound of the Arturia Minibrute, not the drums. You can clearly see most of the sounds use more than one oscillator; for example, initially you see what looks to me like a sawtooth on two oscillators (with oscillator sync?). I think he's changing the speed of the second oscillator and as it gets closer to the frequency of the first oscillator, you start to hear this beating sound.

Notice some of the changes in the waveforms are due to filtering; it is fairly easy to hear this, but harder to recognize in the s(M)exoscope output. It is clearly visible in the spectrum analyser, for example at 1:42 - you see this 'hump' moving from a fairly low to much higher. And at 2:52 for example, you see the the filter being opened up and then closed again.

well you are saying with both oscilators got different pitch,frqeuency, the sound will not be fat, wat i think is the oposite...

didnt understanted u....maybe depends the type of lead u wanna create, TB 303 need a raw sound from just one OSC.... some Strong,"detuned" Leads need both...

but if u dont change semitons and fine tune its hard to get a strong sound then using just one osc...

[luizfbw]

welllll if u change the pitch,frequency speed, of course the detuning will fat!

[mjbrands]

well you are saying with both oscilators got different pitch,frqeuency, the sound will not be fat, wat i think is the oposite...

I'm saying that if OSC is running at 440 Hz and OSC2 at something very close to or at the same frequency as OSC1, that interesting things happen.

The image below is from this Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_tuning



Let's say OSC1 is red and OSC2 is green (the two waveforms in the 'background'). The blue waveform is the result of combining the two oscillators; let's say this is the output when the mix is set at 50-50.

As you can see, OSC2 (green) is very close in frequency to OSC1, but not exactly the same. When the sound starts, the two sine waves start out of the same point and the result is another sine but with twice the amplitude. As time goes on, they 'shift' in relation to each other because the frequency of OSC2 is slightly higher than OSC1. This causes the blue 'sum' of the two waves to change drastically in behaviour.

If OSC1 was running at (for example) 440 Hz and OSC2 at 441 Hz, you most likely would not be able to hear the difference (apart from the volume/amplitude) between 100% OSC1 and 100% OSC2 (unless you can hear perfect pitch). However, if you set the mix at anything other than 100% of either oscillator you will hear a 'beating' noise 'overlaid' on top of the (roughly) 440 Hz sine wave, with the effect the strongest at 50-50 mix.

Anyway, I think I'm only confusing the situation further.

[pablomastodon]

Just an observation: this is how people with ears tune their guitars...when the beating caused by slightly frequency differences goes away, they're in tune.

As far as the Osc Mix thing goes, I have always found on any synth that these kinds of phase differences between oscillators will usually harm the sound I'm looking for more than help it. Sure, you think you're going to fatten up your bass by mixing in another oscillator, but it just doesn't work that way in real life unless they're synced perfectly...

Pablo

[mjbrands]

...unless they're synced perfectly...

Please allow me to apply some emphasis.

[luizfbw]

im new in those subjects....

how do i sync if im not using sync button?semitones and fine tune?

there is a use of semitones out of the +12+24+38 when not using FM,RING and NOISE?

Fine tune for me always will be in same postion, or will be to tremoled....