Nord Rack 2x performance program change

[rozmo]

Hi,
I've owned a Nord Lead 2x for quite some time and have recently purchased a Nord Rack 2x to downsize my setup a bit.
The other gear in my rack are an Akai Z8, a Korg AM8000r (for FX processing of the Nord), a Digitech GSP1101, and a mixer and patchbay etc.
I use a Virus KC to control all of the above and a DSI MEK to send program changes because the KC does not support program change commands in multi mode.

Everything is hooked up via MIDI cables using MIDI Thru ports. This works fine with all my gear, except for the Nord.
E.g. for song 1, I have everything programmed on patch 1. When I switch to song 2 on the MEK and send a program change command, all the other gear switches accordingly etc.
This works well for the Nord for the first 10 patches. After that, the problems begin.
The first performance is stored on location A0. I can go up to A9 without any problems. Then, when I switch to song 11, all my other synths do perfectly fine, but the Nord switches to 1.A0, instead of B0. This is a non-writable location which makes the Nord unusable in my setup (at least if I want to use more than 10 patches, which is the case..).

How can this be solved? Can I edit the MIDI mapping on the Nord in any way or do I need some kind of external device? If so, which one?
And is it just me or is the Nord cumbersome when it comes to MIDI implementation? I have had quite some problems to get it set up (e.g. setting up program changes in general, hanging MIDI notes) while the rest of my gear integrates just fine. IMHO the manual is quite cryptic about MIDI. Awesome sounds though

[mjbrands]

The way the programs are numbered differs on different Nords; on some it is quite straight-forward, like on the Wave where you have 8 backs of 128 sounds (so 1024 in total). I suppose that if the 2X didn't have read-only program locations, it wouldn't actually be a problem for you, though it would still be less than obvious how it switches programs.

I don't have a Lead 2X anymore and can't test anything for you, but the information you present sounds complete and plausible to me. It would be helpful, I think, if you could capture what MIDI is being sent when you go from preset 0.A8 to 0.A9 and then 0.B0 on the 2X - that's likely not like going from program 9 to 10 to 11, which is what the rest of your rig is expecting (I think we suspect the same thing here).

As for a device that could make a translation: the two I can currently think of are MIDIpal (by Mutable Instruments) and Event Processor (by MIDI Solutions). I think I have the Event Processor Plus (not sure), but the MIDIpal most likely has the most extensive feature set; it is also Open Source, so if what you want can't yet be done, it should be possible to add it.

[Annelies vd Ende]

Bank 0 is the RAM bank, the rest is ROM.
Bank 0 is numbered from A0 to L9
I am not a 2X user, but I think Bank 1 is indicated as 1.A0.

Accept from the Bank 1 L0-L9 (which are single Programs derived from the Prophet V) all Perrformances are layers, which means two or mare Slots are working together.
The best way to use Performance mode is the creation of four different Patches in four different Slots, so just hitting the Slot button changes the sound.

Annelies,
on behalf of Wout Blommers, my husband, who can't login anymore, can't receive a mai'l in his mailbox and can't register anymore, because all the data is allready there...
Johannes?

Wout

[mjbrands]

Bank 0 is the RAM bank, the rest is ROM.
Bank 0 is numbered from A0 to L9
I am not a 2X user, but I think Bank 1 is indicated as 1.A0.

Accept from the Bank 1 L0-L9 (which are single Programs derived from the Prophet V) all Perrformances are layers, which means two or mare Slots are working together.
The best way to use Performance mode is the creation of four different Patches in four different Slots, so just hitting the Slot button changes the sound.

A-ha! I just noticed I forgot about the difference between performances and programs.

According to the manual, a program (or performance) change always consists of a bank select (CC #32, Bank LSB) followed by a program change message. If you're in Performance mode you switch performances; if you're not, you switch programs. To change Performances (assuming you're in performance mode), you send a bank select + program change message to the Global MIDI channel. To switch programs (assuming you're not in Performance mode), you send bank select + program change messages to the individual MIDI channels for the slots. I suppose you can also send program change messages to the Global MIDI channel, but it isn't exactly clear to me what will happen in that case; probably all active slots will change program (just a guess).

You can only have a single Performance active at any one time (and a performance consists of one or more slots, potentially with different sounds in those slots). You can however (when not in Performance mode) have every slots to a different program.

Bank numbers for the bank select (CC #32) range from 0 to 9. Program change numbers go from 0 to 109; 0 is program 1, 98 is program 99 and I think 100 gives you percussion P0 and 109 percussion P9. No idea what 99 would do, since it seems unused. If I read it correctly, only banks 0 thru 3 have percussion sets, so for the others 100 thru 109 probably don't select anything.

Performances work in a similar fashion, but the program change messages go from 0 (A0) to 99 (L9).

Some examples:

• bank = 0, program change = 32 --> Program 0.33 (when not in Performance mode)
• bank = 0, program change = 32 --> Performance C2 (when in Performance mode)
• bank = 2, program change = 108 --> Percussion kit 2.P8
• bank = 3, program change = 90 --> Program 3.91 (when not in Performance mode)
• bank = 3, program change = 90 --> Performance 3.L0 (when in Performance mode)

Hopefully I understood it all correctly. As a side-note, I had a sense of deja-vu when typing this. I have a hunch I did this before.

[rozmo]

Hi,
Thanks for the replies and the useful info.
However, the problem still persists: in your example, in performance mode, when sending PC 33 it wont give performance c2, but it gives performance 1.b2 (which is ROM). If it would give c2, my problem would be solved:-)
Any other ideas?

[mjbrands]

Could you check to see what your 2X sends when you go from performance 0.A9 to 0.B0 and from 0.L9 to 1.A0? I'm interested in both the PC as well as the bank select (CC #32) messages.

Also, could you verify the controller (MEK?) is sending a CC #32 followed by a PC when changing programs and that it is going through the programs in the expected order? (I.e. PC 0, then 1, 2, etc.)

[rozmo]

I'll let you know ASAP. I guess I can monitor this with MidiOX?

By the way, I have the entire setup hooked up as follows:

DSI MEK : MIDI OUT --> MIDI IN : VIRUS KC : MIDI OUT (with soft thru enabled) --> MIDI IN : AKAI Z8 : MIDI OUT (with soft thru enabled) --> MIDI IN : KORG AM8000R : MIDI THRU --> MIDI IN : NORD RACK 2x

Don't know if this matters..

[Annelies vd Ende]

Just for the record...
CC #32 has two bytes, I believe [00 00]. The first one is the bank select, the second the bank location.
Aren't they in HEX?

Wout

[mjbrands]

A Control Change message consists of three bytes. The first byte contains the message type and the MIDI channel, the second byte contains the CC number, the third byte the value (bank select LSB in the case of CC #32).

More info can be found in the official MIDI spec, which can be found here: http://www.midi.org/techspecs/midimessages.php

MIDI-OX would indeed be a good way to troubleshoot this.

Your MIDI chain is fairly long, which isn't too good for solid timing. If you use percussive sounds (no attack or a very short attack), try to place these early in the MIDI chain, as bad timing is most obvious with those kinds of sounds.

You might be able to get MIDI-OX to perform some funky transformations on incoming program change messages for the Lead, but that isn't an ideal situation

[Marlowes]

iMIDIPatchbay asks me for this information:

• Channel
  Program
  Bank MSB
  Bank LSB

... tried to find a clue in the manual, but failed ... any hint from you?

My global channel is 16 and my slot is 1.