Delay on Program Changes

[oinkbanana]

can anyone give me tips on dealing with the delay (is it just load time?) that happens when changing program in performance mode?

I use an FCB1010 to send Program changes and note information (as a bass pedal controller as I play guitar) to my nord lead 3. Sometimes it happens that I need a stomp to play a note and a program change at the same time. The problem isn't the foot controller sending the midi date. Using Sonoize midi monitor I know that the program change information gets sent before the note information.
but the note will always sound with the previous patch, it can prove to be frustrating sometimes.

Does anyone else have a setup where something like this happens to them, any tips and tricks on dealing with this?

[mjbrands]

I have no experience with the NL3 in particular, but it is generally a good idea to give a synth some time to switch programs. In the case of the NL3, it probably needs to load new settings in the DSPs or something like that.

I've always put a small pause (I used 0.2 sec) between a program change and the first note sent.

[oinkbanana]

do you know of any midi solutions that would do that? (aside from using two different stomps consecutively)

[mjbrands]

You'd probably need something stand-alone right? I always just used a sequencer, but I doubt that's an option in your case.

I had a look at the manual for that controller (looks like quite a nice unit) and it doesn't seem there's any way to get that delay.

However, the delay (or lack thereof) being an issue is just a hunch; I don't know for sure. Judging from you post, you're probably technical enough to test if this is actually the case or not. Maybe create a MIDI file with a program change and some notes and send that to the NL3; if that doesn't work correctly right away, insert a delay between the program change and the notes and start increasing it until it does work properly.

Of course, contacting Clavia with a question about this would likely be quicker and more efficient. I don't know about you, but I generally tend to do things the hard way

[pablomastodon]

speaking generally (not Nord-specific), where I've had issues with needing to insert a momentary delay between midi commands I've had good luck with just using a few "dummy" messages. Perhaps you're not using all 16 channels in your rig? Invent some phony cc messages on that channel in between the PgmChg message and the Note On message. If you don't have a midi channel to spare, this can still be done by selecting cc #'s that are meaningless to the device using that channel, but you gotta choose those cc #'s carefully to avoid strange and unexpected results.

Of course, sometimes strange and unexpected turns out to be inspirational...

Pablo

[mjbrands]

That would like work in general, but I don't really see a way to do it on the foot controller he's using. If I understand the manual correctly, you can configure it to send a program change message and immediately send a note on message. Different buttons can have different settings, so you could for example use four different notes (which might correspond to different sounds in something like a drum set) on four buttons, where they might be in a different program (which would require you to set up a program change for that button too).

Maybe it might be possible to do away with the program changes. Depending on the type of sound, it might be possible to sample the sounds you need (it will be a fairly limited set anyway, since you only have a limited set of buttons) and create your own Sample. Especially with 'one-shot' sounds like drums (and such) that should work well I think.

[oinkbanana]

I'm not doing any drum 'one shot samples' but rather playing note progressions. The hang up happens when I need to change from the verse sound program to the chorus sound program... and obviously that needs to happen on the note change. In some tracks I can set up a stomp to give me the program change (with out a note), and use that stomp to preempt the change that's needed. but it just makes sending program changes and note changes at the same time futile.
Has anyone ever calculated how long it takes a program to load on a NL3 (you can even see it happening when turning the know - it's not a 0ms operation. IIRC it was a bit faster on a NL2x?)

when using a sequencer (logic pro) I get the same problem when sending note and program changes at the same time. in the sequencer I can obviously nudge the program change before he note change to make it work, but I can't do that sort of thing with he foot controller.

seeing that I can send more then one program change, and two CC, I've tried loading up the data being sent. not a working solution. The additional program changes mess up the mono&hold, which I have set on all my patches.