Thoughts on Flagship PolySynth if you Own a Nord Stage

[NordinaryPianist]

Hey everyone - this is my first post here, but I've been hanging around a bit given my recent dive into Nord. I've been interested in Nord for 20 years now, but only recently decided to take the plunge. I'm a pianist, but I do gig in an acoustic rock band (we play as a duo now), where I have freedom to improvise how I play each song. My main digital board is a Yamaha P-515 which feels about as close to my Yamaha Grand as I can get in a somewhat portable board. My Nord is the Stage 4 Compact. I loved the idea of moving from a 70lb board w/case for gigs to a 28lb board w/case for gigs. The Nord is def a compromise on keybed, but I feel more at home on the waterfall keys when playing ep, synth, organ, etc. It's fine for piano - I just won't be playing Rachmaninov with it. However, if it's a nice day, and I'm feeling up to dragging around my 70lb board, I could easily take both boards and use the p515 as a controller for piano parts.

I love the synth on the Nord Stage, and I use it a ton. I know it's considered simplified, but it's pretty deep, especially considering all of the options in the waveform section (sub osc for instance) and the ability to use a sample as an oscillator. My question is - do any of you that own the nord stage still find use/utility in a genuine polysynth? I've been eyeing some synths off and on for 6 months, and I feel the pull (maybe just GAS), but I'm just wondering if I'd inevitably find that the Nord Stage 4 can approximate the sound and character of these flagship polysynths such that another board might be superfluous. I've heard patches from certain polysynths that I like, and then approximated the sound on my nord. I'm aware that certain sounds/modulations won't be reached. I've played a few of the polys in person, crossed a bunch off my list (muse, rev2, polybrute 12 because of weight, anything less than 61 key and 8 voices) and I have notes on my current favorites - Prophet 10, OBX8, 3rd Wave, and UDO Super 8. I've played the prophet and obx8 in person, and while I know I can go to desktop, I was playing the keyboards, and action is important to me - both of these felt great, though the OBX8 has the edge. Each have their known pros and cons. I have not played the UDO or 3rd wave - neither are anywhere near me to test. I know these can all do more than the Nord Stage's synth - but I'm curious from those out there that might own these along with the nord stage - do you find yourself still using the polysynth in a studio or taking it to gigs?

[cphollis]

I play with a NS4C above a weighted controller in a variety of settings, including full-on electric dance party music. I take a number of synth solos and have cues for several dramatic parts. It's pretty mainstream pop synth stuff, nothing too exotic or ethereal.

And I occasionally ask myself the same question you do -- would I be better off with a "real" monster polysynth for those bits? Play those Prophet or OBx parts on a "real" version?

The answer -- after 10 seconds of reflection --is "big no". In a live setting, close enough is good enough.

I work on getting the levels, EQ and FX right, and it sounds brilliant. Lots of subtle program details can get lost in the fog of war, so I don't think anyone would be able to tell if I played the parts on something different/better.

I'd have yet another keyboard to control (and mix) while performing. That's a big negative, as everything runs off the NS4C front panel now. I ride the faders during the night to get the mix I want. Couldn't do that if I had another keyboard in the rig.

Also, the software synths can blow you away -- but you've got to integrate your own realtime controls. Ahh, too much trouble.

Same thing was true with my Vent II -- the native emulation was good enough and much easier to control, so why am I doing this again?

[MartinJ2EX]

There is a thread over on the "General Synthesizers / Keyboards Forum", I'll send you my post, which will somehow answer your question
viewtopic.php?p=176109#p176109

I will add, that I've overlooked the System-8 for a long time because of its 8 voices "limitation", lack of aftertouch, 49 keys (not 61), and external power supply... but now I've got 2 of them...
Thing is, I'm using the System-8 for our Falco Tribute Project "ZEITGEIST-EXPRESS" and it's just the perfect addition to the Stage 4!
MIDI implementation is great, key zones are awesome, and the sound (if you like Roland's sound) is just perfect!
Furthermore, it's very lightweight.
Some timbres of a Juno/Jupiter just can't be reproduced with a Stage 4 synth... some sounds I just need ADSR envelopes..


Other great Synths:
Juno-X / Jupiter-X (also has samples)
Novation Summit
UDO Super-8 (might be very heavy and big + overkill for being a "second board")
Moog Muse ?
Prophet REV2 16
Arturia Astrolab (if you either have the whole Arturia software package or don't need to edit more than the macros and ADSR envelopes..)

Maybe the Novation Summit is right for you?

I guess you want a (virtual) analog poly?

[MartinJ2EX]

I'd have yet another keyboard to control (and mix) while performing. That's a big negative, as everything runs off the NS4C front panel now. I ride the faders during the night to get the mix I want. Couldn't do that if I had another keyboard in the rig.

Also, the software synths can blow you away -- but you've got to integrate your own realtime controls. Ahh, too much trouble.

Same thing was true with my Vent II -- the native emulation was good enough and much easier to control, so why am I doing this again?

Agreed 100% - I got around playing just my Stage 2 EX with a MIDI controller for many many gigs, but then along came a gig where I integrated my JX-08 into the setup (apart from integrating the Neo Vent II).
With the System-8 now there is the consideration of getting levels right, yes, but as it is very hands-on, it integrates very well into my setup (haven't gigged the setup yet, but rehearsals went great)

[NordinaryPianist]

Thank you both for your replies. @Cphollis - this is kind of what I was thinking. I'm getting so close to some of my favorite patches, but I still am drawn to the idea of a polysynth. I will note that I'm not thinking of this primarily as something to gig with, but I like to have that open as an option. That's why the PB12, while I love the idea of it, is not currently in the cards. Also with my current setup in my studio/office, the PB12 would have to live as a 2nd tier keyboard which....probably isn't a good idea. But otherwise, I can still enjoy making patches for myself, even if it's for no other reason than the exploration. But what is the gain from the polysynth over the nord stage 4.....and it seems like it could be minimal

@MartinJ2EX - System 8 wasn't on my radar, but that will give me something to explore. Thank you for sharing that link - it's one I've read in the past, but will pore over again to try and set myself in the right direction. The reason I listed the 4 I did was because of sound, and build quality - like i said, I know that modules are an option in many cases, but if I am spending big money on a keyboard, I want to enjoy playing it. Prophet 10 and OBX8 have 'that sound' while also providing a competent keyboard experience. Here are some of my thoughts on the ones you mentioned:

Juno-X / Jupiter-X (also has samples) - i'll explore this one more
Novation Summit - summit doesn't have a desktop version unless I get two peaks, and I have read multiple complaints about how bad the keybed is
UDO Super-8 (might be very heavy and big + overkill for being a "second board") - I've heard a lot of great things about this, especially the keybed - wish I could get my hands on one in a store. But this is one of my favorites. It's big, but I could take it to a gig if i wanted to without a huge blow to my sanity - once you get to the 35-40lb range, I say nope.
Moog Muse ? - love the sound of this one, but played it, and I was not feeling it. The keybed is worse than the OBX8 by a wide margin. The one I played was out of tune. Also, the sales rep confirmed that there have been many returns because of nagging issues.
Prophet REV2 16 - this is an option only in desktop. The keybed on this one was way worse than the muse .
Arturia Astrolab (if you either have the whole Arturia software package or don't need to edit more than the macros and ADSR envelopes..) - if I'm getting a polysynth, i'm less interested in the VST approach, even though I understand the versatility.

[cphollis]

If all you want to do is explore programming and composition in a studio setting, even a modest mac will support an incredible universe of sonic processing tools for (relatively) short money.

Maybe get yourself one of those super-cool looking Roli boards to go with a standard midi controller, and explore all the excellent emulations that are out there. Or maybe consider one of the Behringer polysynths -- they are downright amazing for what you pay.

That being said, you just might be one of those people who ends up collecting a bunch of different synths much the way guitarists buy guitars. Finances permitting, of course

[NordinaryPianist]

I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a roli seabord just to see what it feels like....it never ends.