NS2: live organ & piano

[nordic]

Hi, folks.-

This is my first post here. Really friendly and helpful forum. I read a lot of the posts these past days, and learnt quite a bit. I'm an absolutely happy Electro 3-61 user, but now I'm seriously considering moving to the NS2, so it's about time to write here some words.

My real needs in "live mode" for the NS2 would be using great piano & organ sounds, at the same time. As so other people, I'm doubtful about getting the SW73 (lightweighted, with waterfall keys as my NE3), or the nice NS2HA88 (double weight... ouch!). I've downloaded and tooked a look at the NS2 Manual, wondering if it would be possible to do this, at the same time:

1.- Play Piano sounds of the NS2 via MIDI, from an decent external 88 keybed, using Reverb/Delay/Comp, and routed thru Stereo Outputs.
2.- Play B3 Organ from the NS2-SW73 keybed, controlling the drawbars and (very important) using the Leslie, and routed thru Mono Output.

Is there someone here who's using this kind of rig?

It would give me flexibility for small gigs where 88 hammered keybed piano it's not critical, and the option to carry the 88 external keybed when it's needed.

The other option would be to purchase the NS2-HA88 (and then playing the Organ from an external waterfall keybed), but at the price of carrying doubleweight to every gig. And at the end, I would be facing the same Leslie "issue", that I'd need to know first. I suppose the NS2 would handle my needs, but I couldn't find the exact confirmation in the Manual (sorry if is a dumb question...).

I've readed this post about effects routing, but I think it does not adress this exact case. The Manual says (page 39) the Leslie it's placed after the Panel Effects, in the signal path. So it looks like Leslie effect would affect Piano output too, even when Piano sounds and Organ sounds are routed to different sound outputs 1-2 and 3-4? Is it possible to use the Leslie just for the Organ sound (and not affecting the Piano sound)?

Thanks for your help...

Nordic.

[nordic]

Hi Nordic and welcome to the forum!

I am pretty sure what you are after is doable using the 73 + 88 external keys setup. Firstly, you CAN assign different instruments to the different outputs (only that both are stereo). But you want to use the internal Leslie Emulation right (But then why would you like it to be Mono?) ? Or feed to organ output into an actual Leslie speaker?

ANyway the important thing is that the Leslie Speaker IS assignable to all instruments separately (for both Panels), that is, it affects either both organ, both organ, or both Synth sections. So if I understand you correctly, you wouldnt even need the separate outputs.

Finally, in my opinion it is simply a matter of taste of getting 73 NS +88 MIDI or 61-73MIDI + 88 NS. Personally, I like the portability of the compact and went that way.
Cheers! J

[nordic]

The Manual says (page 39) the Leslie it's placed after the Panel Effects, in the signal path. So it looks like Leslie effect would affect Piano output too, even when Piano sounds and Organ sounds are routed to different sound outputs 1-2 and 3-4? Is it possible to use the Leslie just for the Organ sound (and not affecting the Piano sound)

Don't worry, the Leslie will only affect one instrument at a time. It does come after the other effects, so you can add whatever other effects you wish, but the routing is cleverer than the manual suggests, so the other instruments are *not* all routed through the leslie at the same time. Everything will work the way it should.

Something to know is that the Reverb (and Compressor) only work for instruments routed to Outputs 1 and 2, anything routed to Outputs 3 and/or 4 are always "dry".

[nordic]

Thank you both for your answers (and the welcome!).
Really appreciated.

Firstly, you CAN assign different instruments to the different outputs (only that both are stereo). But you want to use the internal Leslie Emulation right (But then why would you like it to be Mono?) ? Or feed to organ output into an actual Leslie speaker?

Yes, Johannes, you're right. I'm using now my NE3 Organ presets thru a tube amp, and I love the sound. I'd like to be capable to do the same with my new NS2, while at the same time I can send the Piano stereo signal to some good portable stage monitor (this forum is a great help to choose that one, btw). I have to carry the tube amp anyway, because I use it for guitar playing with some of the songs.

Finally, in my opinion it is simply a matter of taste of getting 73 NS +88 MIDI or 61-73MIDI + 88 NS. Personally, I like the portability of the compact and went that way.

That's pretty much my way of thinking at this moment. NS2-SW73 has flexibility, portability, and I'm used to the waterfall keys of the NE3.

Don't worry, the Leslie will only affect one instrument at a time. It does come after the other effects, so you can add whatever other effects you wish, but the routing is cleverer than the manual suggests, so the other instruments are *not* all routed through the leslie at the same time. Everything will work the way it should. Something to know is that the Reverb (and Compressor) only work for instruments routed to Outputs 1 and 2, anything routed to Outputs 3 and/or 4 are always "dry".

Ok, RedLeo. That's what I needed to confirm. At first I thought the Leslie would be a part of the "Organ instrument", but when I read the Manual, I went into doubts. So now it's clear the Leslie can be applied just to the Organ output, keeping the Piano signal sounding as it should, at the same time.

About Reverb/Delay/Eq/Comp: ok, I keep in mind that they only apply to Output 1 & 2 (I learned something about that in another thread I read here). Fortunately, it's just exactly what I need, using Outputs 1 & 2 with Piano sounds and apply effects. The Organ would go thru 3 & 4 (taking Mono signal from 3?) just with the Leslie effect; then I can Eq / add Reverb at the tube amp.

Well, so I think now it's time to search for the better price...

[nordic]

So now it's clear the Leslie can be applied just to the Organ output, keeping the Piano signal sounding as it should, at the same time.

Yes, that's correct.

About Reverb/Delay/Eq/Comp: ok, I keep in mind that they only apply to Output 1 & 2 (I learned something about that in another thread I read here). Fortunately, it's just exactly what I need, using Outputs 1 & 2 with Piano sounds and apply effects. The Organ would go thru 3 & 4 (taking Mono signal from 3?) just with the Leslie effect; then I can Eq / add Reverb at the tube amp.

Just to be clear, it's only the Reverb and Compressor that are limited to Outputs 1 and 2. All the other effects - EQ, chorus etc - (the ones colored grey on the front panel) will work on all four Outputs.

The Organ would go thru 3 & 4 (taking Mono signal from 3?)

Not quite sure what you want to do, but the Organ and Leslie will be in stereo if you route the Organ to Outputs 3 and 4 together, but it will be in mono if you route it only to Output 3 or 4.

If you route the Organ and Leslie to Outputs 3 and 4 together (stereo), but only use a lead from one of these outputs, you will lose some of the sound and it may sound a bit wrong.

In other words, if you want the Organ and Leslie in stereo, route it to Outputs 3 and 4, and use two leads. If you want it in mono, route to *only* 3 or 4, and use one lead from that output.

[nordic]

Hello nordic,

All of the above is totally correct. The only global effects are compression and Reverb. Every other thing affects only 1 instrument and the leslie affects 1 instrument on both panels.

Also, in case it is not clear: You can route to outputs 1&2, 3&4, 3 , 4

[nordic]

Sorry I'm late to the party - your description of a weighted 88-key midi controller playing a piano sound on the NS2-73 with effects and reverb out of stereo 1-2 while simultaneously playing organ on the NS2 local keyboard through leslie and out 3 & 4 (or 3, or 4) is exactly how I have my setup. I love it. Very flexible.

[nordic]

It's never late to join a party, bdodds.
Great to know you have the same rig, working flawlessly.

Would it be too much to ask you about the 88 keybed you're using? I thought a Fatar TP40 type would be a good choice... I learned here it's the same keybed used by Clavia for the NS. But I'm open to take a look at any other good option.

About Compression and Reverb as global effects: good point, RedLeo and Gustavo. I'm just beginning to explore the Manual, and I didn't catch that. I'll keep making my homework these next days, but this particular aspect fits right in my plans.

If you want it in mono, route to *only* 3 or 4, and use one lead from that output.

Yes, the Organ would got in Mono thru Output 3 only, I'm afraid I didn't explain it well.
Thanks for mentioning, anyway.

[nordic]

Just to say finally I've got this weekend my new NS2 SW76.
Very happy with it.

In the case this could be of help for another person in the future, in a similar situation as mine, I'm going to share some of my sensations...

I could try out at the store both NS2 SW73 and HA88 versions, before deciding the purchase. Anyone of them are wonderful. As you know here, for a start, I was prone to the SW73, because I need portability and low weight. I was a little bit surprised the NS2 SW73 waterfall keybed has some little weighting, comparing to my ex-NE3 61. I didn't catched that detail before in the Clavia web. This felt better for playing pianos, without making any bad when playing organs. Nice little surprise. HA88 felt great at pianos, and better than expected to play organs. But it was weighty (altough in the low side, comparing to other companies 88 keyboards).

At the end, I felt any of both would have been a good choice. I was used to NE3 lightweight, so I took that path: NS2 SW73.

Coming from a NE3, I love the Rotary Speaker "drive" control, the Delay, and the feel/sound of Pianos. I do really think Nord makes the perfect instrument, fits exactly for my taste and needs. It's really, really great. I hooked up a SL880 keybed via MIDI to the NS2 SW73, and it's working flawlessly thru Slot B to play piano.

Now I'm going to surf the Manual, trying to find the way to create Programs where I can:
- play Pianos from the external 88 keybed thru Slot A, sending the sound thru Outputs 1 & 2 with Reverb/Eq/Comp
- play Organ in slot B with NS2, sending sound thru Outputs 3 & 4

Thanks folks again.

N.

[bdodds]

Oh, sorry I didn't reply - I'm using an old Kurzweil PC-88mx I used to use many years ago. The sound module part konked out years ago, but MIDI still works, so I use it as a controller now.