Brand new Electro 6D 61 piano velocity problem?

[Ref54]

I just pickedd up my new Electro 6D 61 today and I'm wondering if I should return it.

The organ and the synth section play with the lightest touch on the keys (as they should, so all good there.

The problem is with the Piano section. When playing very lightly, notes don't sound at all below a certain velocity. I can press any key down lightly without making a sound, then I can repeatedly press that key at any velocity without making a sound, unless the key is allowed to come up above the half way mark (half way of the full key travel that is).

It's as though the lowest velocity layer of the sample isn't there.

Is this how this 61 not version operates, or do I have a duff unit?

I have a Wave 2 and don't have this problem (obviously it doesn't have a piano section).

Thanks in advance.

[baekgaard]

This is how a real piano works, and also how your Electro is designed to work. If you play an electric piano that isn't completely quiet at low velocities it is not a faithful replication of a piano.

Re-triggering also needs to be done by lifting the key up above the escape mechanism on a real piano so the hammer drops back in place for a new push. Your Electro does that too, like you describe.

There is a small difference to a real piano in that your Electro will dampen the sound (stop sounding) before you can re-trigger the key. A real piano has a small range where the key can re-trigger before it dampens. That is why some models have three contacts pr key and not only two - if you need that, you could consider a NP5, NG or a NS4 instead.

So all appears well with your Electro

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[Ref54]

Thanks for the reply.

I get the retriggering part and that’s fine. The low velocity thing is definitely a problem though.

After posting here last night (my time), I connected my Wave 2 by midi and played the Electro’s piano using the Wave 2’s keybed. Bingo! It played exactly as I thought it should. I could play really soft and all notes would sound every time. Which is how the 73 note version I played at the shop.

It’s going back. I’ll post here how it turns out.

[baekgaard]

It’s going back. I’ll post here how it turns out.

I would not personally have sent it back, as it is not broken -- but feel free to do, if you wish, of course

The Wave 2 will always trigger a sound, just at a very low MIDI velocity. That is how it is designed, as it is set up as a synthesizer. So you tested the piano sound engine of the Electro using the keyboard of the Wave 2, and got a different behaviour to using the Electro's keyboard for triggering the same sound. Hence, you're comparing how the two keyboard engines work, and they are (by design) different.

Your Electro can also play a sound at the lowest MIDI velocity of 1 in the piano section if you hit it soft, but not too softly. It can also NOT trigger a sound if you push down the key very slowly.

That is how it should be, and how all Nord keyboards with "piano emulation" works (and I think also most other brands' keyboards, IIRC).

This can sometimes be used for creative playing; on keyboards that have string resonance enabled, you can hold e.g. a C4 key (without making it sound) and then play and immediately release the C3 key -- and you will now hear the sympathetic string resonance from the C4 string.

There are plenty other threads on this here, there was one just a few days ago, and a quick search returned also https://www.norduserforum.com/nord-elec ... 21883.html

Hope this helps to clarify the issue?

[baekgaard]

I realised that I forgot to mention that if you do a MIDI loop-back (connecting the MIDI out to the MIDI in) on your Electro, and change to Local Off mode (in the System menu), you can also make it sound at very low key velocities since it (for a number of good reasons) always sends out a MIDI note-on message (at velocity 1) when the key is pressed down -- and I just double-checked this on my own Electro also, which works exactly like I described here and as above.

[FZiegler]

@baekgaard: And you think, a MIDI velocity value of 1 would trigger a piano sound from the piano engine?

@Ref54: baekgaard already explained why mute notes happen - should be by design. But I'm puzzled by your description that the 73 note version at the shop didn't show the same behaviour - it should have!

Did it have the same key action? (NE6 D or HP?) It's a little problematic with the waterfall version (D) to play piano with a finely graduated volume - it's not specifically made for that.

[baekgaard]

@baekgaard: And you think, a MIDI velocity value of 1 would trigger a piano sound from the piano engine?

@FZiegler: I didn't put a MIDI monitor on the Electro, but I did test the loop-back function briefly to be sure. When I trigger the keyboard at really low volume, it always sends out a MIDI note-on of some very low value (presumably velocity 1) that the same Electro responds to via MIDI in by making a sound. In theory, the boards could send out only velocity 2 and above, and never velocity 1 at low volume, but I don't think that is the case; why should it do so? And even if it's been a while since I checked something like this before, as far as I remember, the boards respond to velocity 1 also in the piano engine. I can maybe double-check that also later on.

[maxpiano]

@baekgaard: And you think, a MIDI velocity value of 1 would trigger a piano sound from the piano engine?

@FZiegler: I didn't put a MIDI monitor on the Electro, but I did test the loop-back function briefly to be sure. When I trigger the keyboard at really low volume, it always sends out a MIDI note-on of some very low value (presumably velocity 1) that the same Electro responds to via MIDI in by making a sound. In theory, the boards could send out only velocity 2 and above, and never velocity 1 at low volume, but I don't think that is the case; why should it do so? And even if it's been a while since I checked something like this before, as far as I remember, the boards respond to velocity 1 also in the piano engine. I can maybe double-check that also later on.

Yes, it works like that and for me it is also a bug, because then if you record via MIDI while you play on a Nord Electro/Stage and you "play silent notes" they become audible in playback.
If Velocity = 1 is a silent note for a given Piano Engine then it should always be... (other Digital Pianos supporting silent note work like that)

[Ref54]

Thanks for the replies and info on this.

So I kept the Electro and I'm now loving it!

The 73 note version I played in the shop was a waterfall keyed, but I suppose the few weeks gap between playing it and buying the 61 must have clouded my thoughts on it.

Looping the midi and turning off local is interesting and I'll try it just as an experiment, but probably just that.

The Electro's first gill will be at the end of this week, so I'm just setting up how the Wave 2 and the Electro are going to work together. This is probably for another thread, but here is how I'm going to do it. Unless I'm missing something, connecting a Wave 2 and Electro to work together (program change, sharing pedals and the occasional use of Ext Kbd to Low), isn't possible without some help from my Event Processor Plus.

Wave 2 midi out to Electro midi in, with the Event Processor Plus between them.
Electro 6 headphone out to Wave 2 monitor in (Wave 2's L&R will go straight to my DI).
Wave 2 set to Global Midi Ch 1
Electro 6 set to Global Ch 1 and Ext Kbd midi channel set to 2.
Event Processor Plus: Filter all events, then allow CC 11 and CC 64 through on channel one. Map the Wave 2's notes on Ch 1 to Ch 2, so that any patch with the Ext Kbd to Low feature switched on will allow the Wave 2 to play the Electro, expanding my Wave 2 to 5 layers.

All of the above is working so far, except the mapping the notes from ch 1 to ch 2. I've not quite got the right SysEx for that one. The Wave 2 will play the Electro through Ext Kbd to Low, but it will only play each note once and then that note is silenced. Maybe because I've used Note Off to 0, rather than an actual Note Off command.

Anyway, thanks for the help on this and I'm glad I didn't return the Electro 6D.