And so, October…

[be lee vit]

Which is why I think a sale to a Big Bad Music Company would be a good thing, because it would infuse some energy, personnel, and cash into what is fast looking like a boutique company that is turning its autumn colors and getting close to falling off the tree.

But although the Nord brand seems to be very strong on the market don't you think there's a risk of hostile takeover? I share your criticism towards management style of Clavia, but I have some concerns if an acquisition would be the best option...

I believe hostile takeovers are only a possibility with publicly traded companies...my understanding is that Nord is privately owned.

[docbop]

Which is why I think a sale to a Big Bad Music Company would be a good thing, because it would infuse some energy, personnel, and cash into what is fast looking like a boutique company that is turning its autumn colors and getting close to falling off the tree.

But although the Nord brand seems to be very strong on the market don't you think there's a risk of hostile takeover? I share your criticism towards management style of Clavia, but I have some concerns if an acquisition would be the best option...

I believe hostile takeovers are only a possibility with publicly traded companies...my understanding is that Nord is privately owned.

Sale to big mega corporations if a bad thing more often than good. A lot of time they just want some technology/patents or to buy the trademarks of the company. Look at Yamaha for example they have acquired a lot of music and audio tech companies over the years and most of them disappeared in a year or two, occasionally Yamaha will keep and company as a division of Yamaha. But whether they smaller company disappears or Yamaha keeps the Yamaha raids the technology and moves it into Yamaha branded products.

People are saying Clavia is in trouble someone point me to some articles or press releases stating that otherwise its rumor mongering. Does someone on this thread or forum know a Product Manager at Clavia and get them to read this thread. I doubt they will give you any hard dates or what's coming in the pipeline from Clavia but they should be able to post something to says all's good. From my time working in software industry that's how a thread like this would be addressed. Sure you're going to get a bunch of Marketing double talk, but it would be from someone at Clavia.

[Gunya]

Has anyone mentioned it’s Nord’s 40th anniversary next year ?

[analogika]

That is not correct. The Piano Library Samples in all the Nord instruments are stored in Flash RAM, not computer memory. That is why they are all instantly available on boot-

-dj

I'm affraid you're wrong because RAM memory is temporary and loaded each time the operating system is turned on. So the sounds must be saved somewhere permanently in a storage memory and that is this 1GB of flash memory in the Electro 6. Clavia doesn't publish information about RAM used in Nords... They only publish information about the storage flash memory (but this is not RAM!)

For the third time, I will put it bluntly: You are wrong.

The storage used is NOT regular “Flash” SSD storage. It is a special, extremely expensive kind of Flash called “Flash RAM”. It is NOT RAM, but a kind of Flash storage that keeps its content, but can be read at speeds similar to RAM speeds. The trade off is that it is extremely slow to WRITE to, and it is extremely expensive.

Other systems run like computers, where a computer OS runs on a processor, and when you switch patches, it loads the samples needed from the SSD into RAM and plays them from there. These machines typically take a few minutes to start up.

The Nord and some other systems don’t work that way. They don’t have the CPU/RAM/controller/storage structure, but rather run a system where nothing needs to be “loaded”. All engines are available constantly and immediately, and all samples are read directly from special storage chips which are orders of magnitude faster than regular Flash. That is why the Nord takes a few seconds to turn on — basic function check, check for calibration, and go.

[sonicblue]

For the third time, I will put it bluntly: You are wrong.

The storage used is NOT regular “Flash” SSD storage. It is a special, extremely expensive kind of Flash called “Flash RAM”. It is NOT RAM, but a kind of Flash storage that keeps its content, but can be read at speeds similar to RAM speeds. The trade off is that it is extremely slow to WRITE to, and it is extremely expensive.

Other systems run like computers, where a computer OS runs on a processor, and when you switch patches, it loads the samples needed from the SSD into RAM and plays them from there. These machines typically take a few minutes to start up.

The Nord and some other systems don’t work that way. They don’t have the CPU/RAM/controller/storage structure, but rather run a system where nothing needs to be “loaded”. All engines are available constantly and immediately, and all samples are read directly from special storage chips which are orders of magnitude faster than regular Flash. That is why the Nord takes a few seconds to turn on — basic function check, check for calibration, and go.

What a nonsense! There are no self running flash memory chips. It always needs some SoC solution. And every Nord for sure has some system on chip, integrated cpu and ram, it has operating system as well. There are dozens of devices which loads in few seconds after switched on and are ready to operate, like cameras, audio systems, blurays, tvs... They all have integrated SoC chips. There's nothing unique in Nord in this regard.

[M1tsos]

Has anyone mentioned it’s Nord’s 40th anniversary next year ?

Yes clavia started at 1983

I guess they should make something good for the anniversary

[analogika]

I found the term "NOR flash" which sounds to be what we are talking about: fast storage for reading (almost like computer RAM), slow for writing (like any flash), permanent storage, but very space consuming in its parallel bus structure (close to SRAM) resulting in high per-GB prices (derived from die costs) and low usable MB/GB figures compared to NAND flash (like usual SSD storage). StrangeAeons and others already pointed to that.

I find it useful _not_ to argue whether you can call it RAM or not - as the architecture apparently can not be fully compared to computers or smartphones.

And in two years of being part of that forum I already got bored about the never-ending demands that Nord should double the available sample storage (or more). The only thing I can tell is: As I still haven't deleted most of the factory sounds, there is little free space to test new sounds - so there are even piano samples I never tested for myself. And one day or another I will finally take the courage to efface everything I don't need at the moment. And connect a computer for testing out some interesting samples and bundles. Be it in October or not.

If there is a need for an instrument that is equipped like a smartphone (BT for MIDI and low latency audio, direct web access, full programmability etc.), I'd recommend: Get in touch with some investors, get in contact with high tech businesses, get the money and the patents needed and develop your own board. Make sure you have an available time of at least 10 man-years for a first beta product. I guess it's more complicated than ever even if all technology does exist.

If I was a Clavia developer, the only thing that made my life hard would be the comments of people always demanding more (while I'm struggling to just solve the next little problem that will not be visible to the musicians once it's done). If ever Clavia found that there is one or another point of their platform to be changed completely, it will take its time to get it sorted out. And the only conclusion from more than 5 years not seeing a new Stage instrument is for me: I'd be somewhat disappointed if the next new model was a Stage 3ex.

And hey, @sonicblue: Where does the necessity come from to enter a new forum with that sort of big mouth? Even if one or another point of what was said isn't fully precise. I'm sure analogika knows well enough what a SoC is - no need to tell him.

[tetra]

For the third time, I will put it bluntly: You are wrong.

The storage used is NOT regular “Flash” SSD storage. It is a special, extremely expensive kind of Flash called “Flash RAM”. It is NOT RAM, but a kind of Flash storage that keeps its content, but can be read at speeds similar to RAM speeds. The trade off is that it is extremely slow to WRITE to, and it is extremely expensive.

Other systems run like computers, where a computer OS runs on a processor, and when you switch patches, it loads the samples needed from the SSD into RAM and plays them from there. These machines typically take a few minutes to start up.

The Nord and some other systems don’t work that way. They don’t have the CPU/RAM/controller/storage structure, but rather run a system where nothing needs to be “loaded”. All engines are available constantly and immediately, and all samples are read directly from special storage chips which are orders of magnitude faster than regular Flash. That is why the Nord takes a few seconds to turn on — basic function check, check for calibration, and go.

What a nonsense! There are no self running flash memory chips. It always needs some SoC solution. And every Nord for sure has some system on chip, integrated cpu and ram, it has operating system as well. There are dozens of devices which loads in few seconds after switched on and are ready to operate, like cameras, audio systems, blurays, tvs... They all have integrated SoC chips. There's nothing unique in Nord in this regard.

Are you sure you are not also saying some nonsense instead ...?

Do you know how a DSP works and that it can directly interface a memory chip? Do you have it clear the different HW architectures existing and in particular between computers and embedded systems? Have you ever analysed the mainboard of a Nord or a Nord schematic diagram (the NE2 one is available on this forum Nord Electro 2 Service Manual and Schematics if you want to take a look) trying to understand how it is built (what are the components present and their role) ?

Of course every Nord keyboard also has a microcontrontroller (not a "SoC") to manage the whole thing, in the NE2 for example is a MC68331, but it is not directly involved in the sound generation (DSPs are) and so it is not related to the Flash RAM capacity discussion.

[Gambold]

It's always possible that if Big Music were to buy Clavia, they would gut the company and clone the tech under their own brand, but I doubt it. Nord is not, contrary to what I just posted recently, merely a "boutique" name. A boutique company is something like Victoria Amplifier, who make expensive copies of old Fenders and sell them to rich white guys who want to pretend to be Eric Clapton or Keith Richards. You don't see Victoria amps on stages or television. You DO see Nords everywhere, and I think just about any professional keyboardist would name them as the premiere board manufacturer.

So I think it would behoove any corporation who bought Nord to keep the Swedish company and its personnel intact, and continue releasing their flagship products. I also think a corporate godfather could help broaden the product line (an entry-level, lower-cost keyboard would be huge) and invest in the personnel and equipment needed to improve the boards' technology - which as we all know, isn't getting any younger.

Would Nord keyboards lose something from this? Sure - there is an ineffable quality to original construction of classic brands that can never be replaced. People still want a Mark I Rhodes for a reason, and they pay hug $$ for original 1950s Les Pauls or those early Fender amps. Vintage Nords would become ever more collectible. You might see some models phased out (like the drums and the Grand), and the Stage and Electro could be heavily modified and even renamed. But I don't see another way out for Clavia if they want to survive the next forty years.

And maybe Yamaha or Korg would insist on redesigning that damn preset numbering scheme

Gambold

[sonicblue]

Thank you Gambold. Lots of fresh thinking. Of course there's a predominant vintage concept in the current Nord lineup. When we look at modern studio and stage gear like even the Numa X we see color touch screens, we have color led lights, knobs, pads and so on... Do I miss it in Nord? I think it would be nice to see some improvements and modernisation, especially the touch screen. But is it really out of intellectual (technical and marketing) reach of the current Clavia staff that we need it to be sold to its stronger competitor? Hopefully not. I really look forward to see how will they celebrate the 40th anniversary