New Samples releases

[analogika]

Speaking for me personally only I don‘t see it that strict. I mean, I love playing Hammond and piano all the time, I could try to imitate Jon Lord a whole gig. But ... then there is the band. The band members are friends. If my guitar man likes Gary Moore‘s Still got the blues, and he plays the guitar in my opinion better than Gary himself, I try to support the tune with some marvellous string parts. The band is happy, the audience is as well, and so am I. No problem for me, because I see that the other band members also make their compromises and support my ´dream‘ pieces. It‘s very often a friendly give and take. I wouldn‘t want them hiring another keyboarder only because of my lets call it stubbornness. Regards from Germany, stay healthy.

[Gambold]

That's a very well-written sentiment, and of course I respect it. And of course I have "compromised" my rigorous position and occasionally played a string part and even (shudder) a synth line or two.

BUT - I think it's important to establish what you as a musician want to be in the band. While the rest of the band members may make compromises, no-one is asking the guitar player to pick up a saxophone (unless that's a specialty), nor are they pressing the singer to sing in a faux accent. Other than the keyboardist, musicians in pop-rock outfits are pretty much left to be what they are, with their own sounds.

It can get fuzzy with the keyboardist, especially if they are playing a Nord - too often he/she can become a samples machine or the person who is expected to sound exactly like some other instrument in some song the band is covering. You become a less a piano player and more a special effects source.

When I look at my keyboard performance heroes*, very few of them are being asked to create fake orchestras or horn lines. They are playing piano, or the organ, or an electric piano. That's pretty much it, and that's what we want to hear from them. Yeah, in a pinch I can sound like a xylophone. But like the guitarist, and the drummer, and the bassist, and the singer...I would rather be allowed to just sound like myself.

--Gambold

*Jimmy Smith, Ray Charles, Joey DeFranceso, Freddie Mercury, Ray Manzarek, Nicky Hopkins, and many more - it's a long list. None of them played samples.

[kirsty]

Wow this thread .. lol

And a couple of days ago I said the forum went quiet. How wrong could I be.... Good to see everyone back, hope you guys are all well and ok?

On the subject of strings samples I would be interested to see which string samples people like to use the most or any particular settings used.
Although they arent bad, I've really struggled to love the Nord strings... coming from the Kurzweil strings previously which were awesome. Curious what works for others?

K

[Rusty Mike]

BUT - I think it's important to establish what you as a musician want to be in the band. While the rest of the band members may make compromises, no-one is asking the guitar player to pick up a saxophone (unless that's a specialty), nor are they pressing the singer to sing in a faux accent. Other than the keyboardist, musicians in pop-rock outfits are pretty much left to be what they are, with their own sounds.

I think more to the point is that nobody ever asks a guitar player to make their guitar sound like a saxophone. It’s just ridiculous, and yet we’re asked to do it far too much.

A few years back I played with an after-hours cocktails style group, and played only piano because that’s what was fitting. One day the trumpet player/leader sends us a video of some ultra stylized pop tune that featured and accordion sound over a Latin American pop groove. Absolutely nothing like anything else the band played. He said I could just pop up an accordion sound on my Electro to play the tune. I responded back to him with an honest and curt explanation that effectively said I don’t do that and that he was an ass for even asking. I left that band shortly afterward mostly because the leader was a jerk.

As a non-professional, I’m very selfish about what I play: big band and small combo jazz standards. This calls for acoustic piano, Rhodes and some B3. Done. That’s it. Don’t ask me for anything else. Personally not a fan of the Wurlitzer sound (always liked Rhodes better) and can’t play Clavinet to save my life, so even those are off the list.

My fusion band is one exception where I will play solos using the Stage’s synth engine, but it’s always appropriate for the style of music. That band plays two maybe three times a year, so this is not a frequent thing. It’s also kind of fun to rip on a synth solo. But it’s not any of that other stuff, like accordion.

Not knocking what other people do, or the style of music you like. I don’t like that keys players on rock bands are relegated to back line and near silence in context, but it’s not something I’ll ever have to deal with. I’m happy Nord has such a great sample library as it adds to the versatility of the instruments; I’m just not a big user of it.

[Tasten-Bert]

Great place here! Glad to be with you. I don‘t wanna miss a thing ...

@kirsty: strings and other samples such as brass, a sax and even accordeon I must painfully admit come from my korg X50. This area is not one of nord‘s strenghts to me. But I love my nord for its organ and pianos. Here comes the sun ...

[Hlaalu]

BUT - I think it's important to establish what you as a musician want to be in the band. While the rest of the band members may make compromises, no-one is asking the guitar player to pick up a saxophone (unless that's a specialty), nor are they pressing the singer to sing in a faux accent. Other than the keyboardist, musicians in pop-rock outfits are pretty much left to be what they are, with their own sounds.

It can get fuzzy with the keyboardist, especially if they are playing a Nord - too often he/she can become a samples machine or the person who is expected to sound exactly like some other instrument in some song the band is covering. You become a less a piano player and more a special effects source.

Gambold, we could argue on and on about why those three sound families you mention are great, namely whether they are great "just because they are" or because someone made them great. Needles to say it's the latter, and I guess you'd agree with that. Before someone makes something out of an instrument, any new thing is received with skepticism because it doesn't fit in the tradition. Sure when the piano was invented someone must have told other people they "should insist" playing the harpsichord because it was the right one! But after many great piano composers and players we have had, we take it for granted that the piano is the thing.

Funny that you list Hammond among the greats, too, which was born precisely as a cheap-and-full-of-quirks substitute for another mighty instrument whose stops registrations, in turn, were not only reminiscent of, but were even labelled as orchestra sounds (flute, strings...). By your logic, a pipe organ isn't a serious instrument, since it's a bunch of keyboards trying so hard to be an orchestra! Not to mention the clowny-like postures requested by organ players, using every single limb of their body to make sounds out of this fun machine. But once again, guess what, after we've had Bach, no one dares to say the organ isn't a serious instrument.

But all that being said, one can still be perfectly aware of the above and yet continuing to prefer certain specific sounds, be them historical or not, and commit to only play those in his band. I don't think you expressing your preference for APs, EPs and Hammond really ticked anyone off that much. The problem is that, perhaps a bit condescendingly, you explicitely told people that they "should insist" playing only those, the ones that you think are the right ones, implicitely calling people playing anything else idiots because they like silly things. I believe this is the part that got people pissed off the most, if you get what I mean...

Come on guys, let's chill up... (Incidentally, I kind of even agree with you about the "greats"!)

[kirsty]

@kirsty: I've got used to the blending string sound from the logic sampler. The individual strings wavs are just on the harddisk and can easily be loaded in the nord with the sample editor. "Pop Strings/ESX Strings 2" is my favorite sample set. Just loop them, reduce attack and increase the release. Filtered down it could also work as a pad sound.
Works great layered with a piano sound.

I use the same sound as a lead string sound (layered with other strings to increase the attack and width according to taste)

You can find the location of the samples if you edit the sound and open it in the sample editor. (/library/Application Support/Logic/EXS Factory Samples/06 Pop Strings/EXS Strings2)

[FZiegler]

Rusty Mike, you mentioned guitars. I don't know much about guitar players. But I was quite sure that there are lead and rhythm guitar players - apart from classical and flamenco players. Even if they often can do more than one, everyone is specialised. If it's not hardcore electrical flamenco (I know one who didn't make a stable career out of that).

I'm a classical piano player. Absolute beginner in playing any sort of organ. Not very good at playing the harpsichord. Haven't been playing much EP. But switched from classical to jazz music. Only played a little jazz trumpet before. Being the keyboardist in a big band now will help me getting more into it with the keys. It's new to me, as I've never been a real "keyboardist", just a piano player. So my NS3C helps me exploring sounds and playing techniques. As does the band which is not "my" band, it's a band I joined for that sake. And for enjoying my life and my capabilities. The band leader knows I'm a piano player, and it was fine so far.

At home, I'm sitting at the keyboard trying accordion, mallets and other instruments (mostly from the piano engine, as I'm used to key velocity) just to see if it's fun. But it's hard work as you often need quite some time to get into that thinking and playing. I've never been playing (plucked) guitar on the keys - doesn't work for me. I'm still hoping to be able to play a bit accordion, but the multi note bass jumps are complicated. I like playing marimba, but I often happen to use more than 4 fingers ("mallets") or play 1 + 3 instead of 2 + 2. So that way imitating other instruments is demanding. And is limiting instead of broadening my possibilities. Anyhow, I'm happy I will never have to play brass or saxophone samples in my big band even more as a Stage doesn't support the necessary "supervoice" techniques etc. If I want to play trumpet, I'll take mine to the lips.

And on the other side, I will continue to explore sounds and playing techniques to find my own style and my ways to express myself. I'm in the happy situation to play an instrument that covers rhythm, melody and more. I don't always need a band. If I'm playing music with others, it's to enjoy the fun of playing together and to give my skills into something bigger. And to perform things I can't on my own. It's like singing in a choir.

I myself didn't buy a Roland or a Korg, but a Nord. It's because I'm not that Rudess type of keyboardist. And it's because the Stage fitted my needs very closely: I like to have the organ engine to finally figure out how to play that (the swell pedal, the drawbars and the half moon switch are demanding enough for me), and I like to have a restricted synth/sample section that is capable of playing more than a strings layer pad but not too much.

That's why I ended up deleting some unused samples and testing those "incriminated" Thai gongs. I like their tuning - they are not very chromatic, at least not at all in an even temperament. Probably won't use them in the band. But found them interesting. And they certainly encourage me to keep my ears open which sounds I could introduce myself.

Some of us are multi instrumentalists (with or without keys). But you don't need to be. For sure, I will focus my efforts on 2 or 3 (new) directions and not do everything. I'm not a semi pro like Katzenjammer from Norway who all together play piano and drums on stage along with glockenspiel, wash board, bass balalaika, banjo, guitar, ukulele, accordion, trumpet and so on (and sometimes leave the digital piano unused even if they all can play it). For sure, they have to schlepp a bunch of bags and boxes with them: That's not necessarily what a musician is, but can be, too.

[CountFosco]

Gambold's point works for (serious face) keyboard players who play covers or derivative music. I pretty much play "The Gambold Three" in my cover band. But for 20th century funk songs, what else you gonna do, maybe "(shudder) a synth line or two"? But I'm tipping this description of synth means some monophonic leads with a bit of pitch bend and vibrato basta. A lot has happened since the 70s, and synth means a bit more than that now, and there are one or two serious keyboardists not playing covers.

PS You can't steal The Gambold Three for a band name, I thought of it first

[Rusty Mike]

FZiegler, I appreciate your point about the different types of guitars and even that some guitar players are asked to adapt to those styles and sounds. They are, however, still contained within the realm of guitar sounds and styles. Nobody would think to ask a guitarist to sound like a saxophone and play a sax part in a song. It’s a rather ridiculous thing to ask and everyone knows it. Yet, keyboard players are often asked without hesitation to do this.

And, to your point, I find it fun in the confines of my home studio to experiment with sounds that are not piano. I’m starting some of my own home recording, and plan to use textures and sounds that significantly branch out from my current paradigm. I too am intrigued by adopting a “true” jazz vibraphone playing technique for authenticity and expanding my capabilities. Expressive synth solo techniques are very interesting to me, and I hope to develop some skill in that area as well over time.

As I continue the sonic exploration at home, I’m excited to see and hear how Nord’s samples can play a role.

It’s great to see you involved in big band - I’ve been playing big band piano for a bit over 10 years now, since I got back into playing. My original motivation was to get myself back into reading after being away from it for so long, and it really helped me improve that skill. The sounds you use will center around acoustic piano, with opportunities to throw in some electric piano and organ a small percentage of the time. That is, of course, if you want to stay true to the period and style of the arrangement.