Change from Electro 5D to Stage 2 or 3?

[analogika]

YC61 splits and layers from ANY key you'd like.Unlimited combinations of sound engines with FX.....basically what Nord should have done with the Stage 3.
This manufacturer is marketing the YC61 in direct competition to Nord Electro,and has more features like pitch and mod controllers.
Doesn't seem to have AT but either does Electro,will the 76 or 88 note versions have it to directly compete with Stage? Most likely will!

Nothing like a gloves off 10 round match to see where the money will go from here forward!How about 1000 dollars less than an Electro?

The Electro 6D 61 here in Europe is almost 400€ LESS than the YC61, which is inline with what it offers (though I prefer the Nord piano library over Yamaha’s) and what the YC offers.

It’s nice to finally see somebody look to Clavia to see how it can be done.

[Quai34]

Lefty bass said:
"This 1983 Yamaha TX7 is on the same software it left the factory with.Still has many sounds I use gleefully blowing the doors off what Nord offers for 'FM'!"

You compare the brand who invented FM to a Company that has invented the first real electro mechanical keyboard...It's like saying the first nord Electro with the first OS is way better than a work station from Yamaha today...Ot saying that the Prophet from DSI are better at Synths sound creation than the synth in the stage 2...
If you want to be honest, just give an overall comparison of two similar instruments with their strengths and weaknesses...The Stage 2 was a great unit and the Stage 3 is too, with even more features, buy it, you will be very happy with it...

[LeftyBass68]

Most flexible powerhouse still in use though after nearly 40 years is my Yamaha TX7,which really made the Prophet5 go away.With the JX8P the pair more than made up for it back in '83.
Boutique companies don't pour as much development into code because they don't have deep pockets....Yamaha has more shipper receivers than Nord's complete staff.
Finally replaced the memory batteries,new aftertouch rail in 1995,that's about it....can't really expect better than that.DX7 is still and will forever be a desirable platform!

The real question is; "Will Nord have a problem competing with this new less expensive more flexible product line?"
In this economic climate that is my best guess. I've quarantined all my LFO's and put them in self oscillation.
Nord's '1983' has arrived,(DSI's worst nightmare in 1983)and it's a Yamaha YC61 first,they'll take on the Stage later,for now the crosshairs are on the Electro.

I would steer the OP of this thread towards the Yamaha YC61. This Stage3HA88 is for sale and I'll keep the NS2EX88.
The instrument menus on Electro are deeper than Stage.Stage almost gets you there,not quite the whole enchilada though.
Electro fans have lusted for a mod wheel and pitch controller for years,here it is! This will cut into Nord Electro/Stage sales and most certainly will take away some business.

Once I got the White Grand and a few other pianos installed on the NS2EX and did some tweaking,no need to keep the 3-88 as this NS3 Compact is all the '3' I need.(B3 and Farf A/B panels).
Synth isn't really Nord's wheelhouse though,so the 2 is fine for this camper.
This twenty year old Roland XV3080 rompler still every bit as useful as the Nord samples for my needs.
Going somewhere else...not Nord.This pandemic will make things difficult for many smaller companies.
Bad as I feel for Nord,business is business and I hope they survive.They cheaped out and rushed the 3's to market and overall quality in boutique-ism is everything!!!!!!
It is really tough to duplicate boutique success based on 'emulations' without one's own actual synth architecture platform."Virtual" was so 1998 after all.

Will still play Nord too,just not a poster boy for them anymore.They have dropped the ball on the Stage3 IMO.

[analogika]

Most flexible powerhouse still in use though after nearly 40 years is my Yamaha TX7,which really made the Prophet5 go away.With the JX8P the pair more than made up for it back in '83.
Boutique companies don't pour as much development into code because they don't have deep pockets....Yamaha has more shipper receivers than Nord's complete staff.

It’s funny that you mention the JX-8P. I dearly love mine, and I also keep the TX7 around, but Roland‘s concurrent FLAGSHIP — the JX-10 — shipped with woefully broken code that was NEVER fixed until Fred Vecoven reëngineered it a few years ago. I never even got a patch dump working.
Its MIDI implementation was completely buggered and nothing beyond note on/off ever worked properly, while the ostensibly identical rackmount MKS-70 (I have two), in contrast, worked okay.

That's "boutique engineering" for you. I guess.

I got a patch dump to the JX via the MKS. The Vecoven firmware makes it easy directly — and it even eats 8P patches now.

[baekgaard]

Boutique companies don't pour as much development into code because they don't have deep pockets....Yamaha has more shipper receivers than Nord's complete staff.
Finally replaced the memory batteries,new aftertouch rail in 1995,that's about it....can't really expect better than that.DX7 is still and will forever be a desirable platform!

You know that Yamaha didn't invent the FM synthesis, but licensed the technology from the Inventor, John Chowning of Stanford? So it's not always the amount of effort spent developing code to create new technology that matters... Just like some other wellknown companies, Yamaha were good at recognising invention elsewhere and licensed it.

Yamaha should, of course, also be credited with their ability to build the VLSIs that made it possible to commercialise the DX7 and subsequent boards, and thereby define the sound of the 80'ies -- which I guess is now a late boomer thing again (I'm in that age bracket too)

Incidentally, Yamaha also made one of the most horrible instruments to program, from a User Experience point of view... so a lot of the DX7 sounds we listened to back then were simply presets.

Interrestingly, Nords approach is completely the opposite the DX7 philosophy: Make a simple user interface that allows direct control of key parameters directly connected to the intended sound instead of offering deep menus with settings that impact the sound in ways that are difficult to understand (thus violating at least some of Don Normans guidelines). And also, Nord goes for the "warm" analog sound instead of the "cold" digital sound of the FM era.

[LeftyBass68]

Yes the JX8P has shortcomings in it's midi implementation.In 1985 when I got it,the P5 had NO midi,still an upgrade IMO for less money....
Yes J Chowning invented FM synthesis and I mostly use the factory DX7 sounds.Made available on Nord recently,thank you Nord for including FM! Not picking any fights.
Nothing like a Model D and TX7 stacked to move some air in a sub setting,that Bass4 DX7 patch clobbers anything on these Nords IMO.
Same for a JX sawtooth pad,who cares if it's only a six voice ? Nothing sawtooth on these Nords can touch it for sound IMO. Out on the gig those saw pads are close enough on the Nord!
The PG800 overrides the inadequate interface of membrane switches! Has the JX squelching and barking sync'd LFO's at will ! Not perfect but man it has some balls!
Missed out on a JX10 a few years back,went to good home though! I have access to the better OS .This memory cartridge is NFG,so we have been bailed out!
Aftertouch is so nice on the JX! Even nicer was the DX7 keybed IMO. Still have the breath controller too....thank you local guru John at Midi Solutions!

Roland analog synth architecture is deep all the way,no shortcuts! Nord models it good as any I've heard,
Nord Wave2 looks to address the lack of synth power on 61 and larger keybeds in the Nord lineup? I find the Stage 3 A/B combined panels barely adequate in many situations.
I complement it with ; YamahaTX7, Boog Model D,and Uli's Neutron.That includes a 32 voice FM,mono 3 osc,duophonic 3 osc,with some mighty ripping leads and basses.
Well beyond the Stage3 capabilities.The midi implementation of the 2 is better for external synths so far in my experience.Route the Hammond A102 through the Neutron input for some
Lordish ring mods,send the Neutron sum to the Model D external VCF input to overdrive the sums of both.Opening and closing the cutoff freq on the D while holding a triad is the bomb!
For some reason the Hammond preamp acts different through the ring mod than the Nord model? Well done Behringer,this Neutron is architecturally deep!

I have every right to point out inadequacy.Many are of my own making ;>) Needs are tempted by wants like everyone else.
Nord fills most of my 'needs' . All wants aside they are a fine instrument with some shortcomings and 'perceived cheapness' on newer models?
Now give me the Hammond A100,and let me play some proper feeling B3 organ!Good thing I have a Ventilator for it....reluctant to take it off support!
Excuse me for climbing onto the Yamaha C7 bench.When the power goes out....and other times as well!
Everyone by now should have placed all their synth LFO's into self oscillation!

I noticed some nice real time controls in use on that Yamaha YC61,looking forward to playing one!The synth demo pretty much leaves the Electro in need of an upgrade IMO.
Sort of a downgraded Stage,but compromise is my nickname for that platform.Worth a try for sure,Yamaha has some really clunky products and have paid attention to 'wants' on this one!
Will it really replace a Nord? I intend to find out! Thankfully those cheezy fragile little on/off retro switches of the MX are left off this one.
Known for cold metallic sound Yamaha has really lush modeled analog sounds now too! They have been listening and read this forum every day,every post!
One could argue they pay more attention than Nord? They certainly have the resources to do so.

I hope Nord comes through this difficult time,would hate to end up with a complete orphanage.....and wish everyone safety and good health!

[analogika]

Read more closely: the JX-8P MIDI implementation is GREAT. PG-800 sends MIDI, the whole thing works great via SysEx, patch transfers are possible. Zero issues.

The JX-10 was the FLAGSHIP (two JX-8P in a box), and Roland completely f**** it up — and never fixed it.

The JX-8P and JX-10 aftertouch is the worst, least responsive in any keyboard I have ever played. And yes, I’ve played on freshly replaced AT ribbon strips.

[PScooter63]

LeftyBass, I'm just not getting the whole "orphan" thing.

Your DX7 has been effectively orphaned (in terms of direct manufacturer support) for DECADES, and it's still the greatest thing since sliced bread to you... so does orphaning really matter?

[CountFosco]

PScooter, I applaud you for your quite impressive attention span. I'll take your word that those things were said.

[LeftyBass68]

I like this Nord gear in almost every instance compared to other brands.They just don't have the QC a bigger outfit has,somehow still manage OK I suppose.
Maybe the suppliers leave them no choice and they must build it with less quality parts than the past.More of a perceived observation than fact,impressions are first only once.
And my first impression of the new Yamaha YC61 is very good! It will also be chintzy in a different way like the rest of this generation of 'do it all' instruments,and have Nord to thank
for panel layout and architecture.when Nord decided to make a less expensive LOOKING product,it reopened the door to others eager to cash in on their success.(Does it ever close?)

By adding a 'real' synth(yes this old TX7 still is da bom IMO),controllers,moveable split points,YC61 will drive a wedge in Electro sales.
MODX has already siphoned away many people who find the Stage totally overpriced and no longer the only 'all in one' available.
Once the newer model with AT becomes availabe...stampede.

I predict a price war to stay afloat,will still cherish my Nord products through this unprecedented downturn.
I do remember replacing my non midi P5 almost forty years ago now.Still have those 'replacement' toys and use them,never bought or played another DSI!
Alas,the NS3HA88 is up for sale. External midi menu made me the decision to hang on to an older model.
This NS2EX88 is everything I need,and I do really like my NS3C for a 'field kit'.Transit friendliest thing in it's own 'category' IMO.

One thing that Nord should look at besides the 'worn out B3 model' ?
(which is not bad and in fact useable) is; to offer the same patina for the vibrato line caps?
A bigger scan of the scanners.....more choices in the menu,more scanners!
The capacitors wear out really nice and have a bump in the middle three octaves,and less 'chorus' on the outer two octaves.
Some jazz players prefer the sound of unrecapped vibrato line outer octaves!
"Wow listen to that chorus so strong on the low C!", says one player, "Yeah,that sucks the big one ", says another.
Waited half a century for this mojo. Mr Fixit Millenial has the soldering pencil out. Nord if you read this pay attention!

Would it be against their nature to include the perc R1 volume drop mod? an RCA input on the 'doghouse'? (an FX loop?) Maybe if they ever build another B3 clone?
I won't be buying one,happy to advise them the things this Hammond A102 still does better than the C2D! (that is ,besides everything...)
Original first series Neo Ventilators are still the standard by which Leslie simulations are compared and they've had a decade to address that?
This A102 gets about thirty hours a week of use in normal times,last week it was 60 hours.No gigs so the C2D is parked along with the rest of the gear.

I don't see them changing the external midi architecture back to the Stage 2 series, unfortunate for me,they have 'moved on' and I haven't.Really looking forward to the Yamaha YC61!
I'll stay in the slow lane,do the posted speeds,and here is my exit!