NL2X and plug-in

[vollpflock]

Hello everybody

I consider buying a Nordlead 2x in addition to my korg ms 20 mini. The ms20mini is a very nice analogue synth but with the disadvantage, that the knobs are not midi-transmitting, so it's only possible to record the sounds in a program (like logic pro x) as audio-files. I already found out that the knobs in the Nordlead 2x are midi-transmitting, so is it right, that I also can use the NL2X as a midi-keyboard when I use a program and use the knobs therefore also to control other parameters, when I map them to the NL2X?
I was also wondering whether I can record the sounds not only as an audio-file (like I have to do when I use the korg ms20mini) but also as a midi-file? I mean that when I choose a sound on the keyboard and play something, that it records it in a way so I can change things, for example the length of the notes or the pitch on the computer (e.g. in logic pro x). Or do I need an extra vst-program which kind of is a version of the NL2x as a plug-in to do that (I heard that there is a editor program which can be bought)? Sorry for my bad english and that I don't know the correct technical terms.

Thank you

[mjbrands]

... so is it right, that I also can use the NL2X as a midi-keyboard when I use a program and use the knobs therefore also to control other parameters, when I map them to the NL2X?

You can do what you describe. The details depend on the software used, but most DAWs (like Ableton Live or Logic Pro) will allow you to map MIDI controls to functions in that software.

I was also wondering whether I can record the sounds not only as an audio-file (like I have to do when I use the korg ms20mini) but also as a midi-file? I mean that when I choose a sound on the keyboard and play something, that it records it in a way so I can change things, for example the length of the notes or the pitch on the computer (e.g. in logic pro x).

This is also correct; you can record your playing, knob tweaking, etc. in Logic Pro as MIDI and send it back to the NL2X, while you tweak the knobs on the synth to further refine the sound.

Or do I need an extra vst-program which kind of is a version of the NL2x as a plug-in to do that (I heard that there is a editor program which can be bought)? Sorry for my bad english and that I don't know the correct technical terms.

One such program would be the Lead 2 editor from Rekon Audio: http://www.rekonaudio.com/clavia-music/ ... 4?sef=hcfp

It may make it easier to edit parameters in some situations, but it doesn't really add anything you cannot do without it. Note that this editor makes use of MIDI SysEx messages, which doesn't work properly under some DAWs (like Ableton Live), but I do think it will work completely under Logic Pro (which doesn't have any issues with MIDI SysEx messages as far as I know). Also note Logic Pro can only use AU plugins, not the more common VST ones.

There is probably some Open Source (free) CTRLR panel to control the Lead 2X - I haven't check if this is the case though. CTRLR is a Open Source framework/software to create custom control environments that can run in a DAW (as a VST, maybe also as an AU plugin) and allow you to control MIDI synths, etc.

If you have a Lead 2X and a MIDI interface, you should be set. It would be nice if you have a MIDI interface with two sets of ports, because neither the NL2X nor the MS20 Mini has a MIDI Thru port. The MIDI Thru port would allow you to connect your computer to the synth with the MIDI Thru port (via MIDI In), while you connected the second synth (possibly without MIDI Thru) to the MIDI Thru port of the first synth - that way you would only need a MIDI interface with one set of ports. Since neither has a MIDI Thru port, that's not an option. I don't know if you already have a MIDI interface, but they're not actually that expensive.

It would also be nice to have a 5-8 channel audio interface. That would allow you to connect all outputs of that NL2X and your MS20 to your computer at the same time. If you had an audio interface with a built-in DSP mixer, you could even set it up so you can, for example, use the filter on the MS20 to filter the output of the NL2X. The DSP mixer would make it possible to this with hardly any delays - without one (via Logic Pro) would also work, but would cause quite a bit more delay.

[vollpflock]

Thank you for the helpful answer. So I actually can get rid of my midi-keybord (an axiom 49nd) as the nl2x provides me the same functions. It was important to me to be sure that I can record the things I do with the nl2x as midi, including the sound and all the modulations I do by using the knobs, so that It looks in logic pro the same way like when I do stuff with my axiom and use a plug-in-instrument. That really makes things a lot easier, as it is quite annoying at the moment when I use my korg ms 20mini and have to record the stuff a couple of times until it really fits, as it is impossible to change things afterwards. Thank you for the hint regarding the midi-interface. I have an alesis io2 audio-interface, which has a midi-in and a midi-out. I have my korg ms20mini in the audio-input of the alesis, as It makes no sense to use it with the midi-port, because the knobs don't send midi-messages. You mentioned that I would be set if I have a nl2x and a midi-interface. How would you use the alesis? I thought the nl2x also has a usb-slot, which I can use to connect it to the computer.

[vollpflock]

ps: Is it the same thing with the Nord Lead 2? Somebody offered me to sell his Nord Lead 2, and I'm now thinking about the pros and cons between the 2 and the 2x. I know that the 2x is the upgrade to the nl3, not to the nl2. I found out that a main difference is the memory capacity, which is much larger with the nl2x than with the nl2. Which one would you buy, respective is it worth to pay twice as much for a new nl2x than for an old nl2?

[pablomastodon]

You are mistaken: the NL2X is not an upgrade to the NL3, it is an upgrade to the NL2. It has vastly more onboard memory. If the memory of the NL2 is sufficient to your needs, you can spend less money.

Pablo

[mjbrands]

So I actually can get rid of my midi-keybord (an axiom 49nd) as the nl2x provides me the same functions.

Well, potentially the Axiom can do some things the Nords can't (i.e. you can probably program them to change the MIDI messages generated when you use specific controls).

It was important to me to be sure that I can record the things I do with the nl2x as midi, including the sound and all the modulations I do by using the knobs, so that It looks in logic pro the same way like when I do stuff with my axiom and use a plug-in-instrument.

Well, it will not be exactly the same (since the Axiom is meant as a controller and the Nord isn't). Specifically, programs like Logic, Ableton, etc. may provide pre-defined mappings for the controls of the Axiom to controls in soft synths. You can 'teach' Logic you want a specific control on the Nord to control something specific in Logic, but it won't work like that out-of-the-box.

You could also still use that Axiom as a second keyboard for the Nord. You could play one sound on the keyboard of the Nord and at the same time play another sound on the Axiom.

Thank you for the hint regarding the midi-interface. I have an alesis io2 audio-interface, which has a midi-in and a midi-out. I have my korg ms20mini in the audio-input of the alesis, as It makes no sense to use it with the midi-port, because the knobs don't send midi-messages. You mentioned that I would be set if I have a nl2x and a midi-interface. How would you use the alesis? I thought the nl2x also has a usb-slot, which I can use to connect it to the computer.

Please be aware that you cannot send audio over a MIDI connection. If you didn't think that; great, just making sure. MIDI describes what you did (what button you turned, how far, etc) and if you store a MIDI recording of your playing, you can recreate your earlier playing by sending that MIDI data back to your Nord. When you do that, the same sound as before should be coming out of the outputs of the Nord, provided you're using the same program (preset), etc.

If you made a MIDI recording of your playing on the Nord and it turns out you should've opened the filter quicker, you can just change that in Logic. When it concerns notes you would just change them on the piano roll, but for other stuff (like knobs, pitch and modulation) you generally call it 'automation' - you automate the change of a parameter. In the filter example, you could just change the automation for the filter cut-off in a number of ways and, other than that, keep your original MIDI performance. You play it back in Logic (= send it to the Nord) and you'll have your modified version as audio.

Since MIDI cannot carry an audio signal, you still need to connect the outputs of your Nord to some audio interface. You could either unplug your MS20 and plug in the Nord, use a small mixer or (the best option of 'studio' use) use an audio interface with more channels.

ps: Is it the same thing with the Nord Lead 2? Somebody offered me to sell his Nord Lead 2, and I'm now thinking about the pros and cons between the 2 and the 2x. I know that the 2x is the upgrade to the nl3, not to the nl2. I found out that a main difference is the memory capacity, which is much larger with the nl2x than with the nl2. Which one would you buy, respective is it worth to pay twice as much for a new nl2x than for an old nl2?

From a MIDI or patch perspective, the NL2 and NL2X are equal. The NL2X is a technology refresh of the NL2 and there is no relation with the NL3 - that's a completely different beast.

While the NL2 and NL2X are largely equivalent, there differences:

• 16 voice polyphony on the NL2 v.s. 20 voices on the NL2X.
• The NL2X has a much, much larger memory and unlike the NL2, it does not need a PCMCIA SRAM card (those are hard to find and contain a battery which can start leaking).
• The DACs (digital to audio convertors) are different, which leads to a slightly different sounds; some say the NL2 sounds 'more raw' and authentic than the NL2X, but some people also say Elvis is not dead.
• Any NL2 you buy will be at least 10 years old, while the NL2X is still being made (getting an NL2X repaired in the coming years should be easier than with the NL2)

Unless you specifically want the NL2 for the different DACs (and potentially slightly different sound), I suggest going for the NL2X. Of course, if you can get a good deal on the NL2, that would be a fine choice too.

This page lists the specs for the NL2: http://www.clavia.se/products/discontin ... hnical.htm

The Nord Lead 2 uses 18-bit DACs (unspecified rate) while the NL2X has more modern 24-bit 96 KHz DACs. I'm sure the NL2X will sound a bit smoother than the previous models (with their 18-bit DACs), but in both cases it is still better than CD quality. If I want a more noisy and less smooth signal, I can always run it through some distortion, etc.

Again, if you get the NL2 over the NL2X, I think your most important reason should be the slightly different sound. One of the reason the NL2X will likely be more expensive is that it is much newer; you will get an instrument which (probably) had fewer previous owners and has better specs (especially more program memory).

If you're talking about an NL2 for half the price of most 2nd hand NL2X-es, than I think that's a good bargain provided it is in good condition. It could also mean that the price you were offered for that NL2X was too high.

[pablomastodon]

Elvis is not dead. I saw him at Nicko's Diner (1-1/2 blocks from my house) last week.

Pablo

P.S. -- sorry if this is off-topic to the thread, but I couldn't resist...