Nord User Forum

Hi! I'm hoping to get some feedback here if possible (particularly from Hanon since I saw him reply on a similar topic).

I recently purchased a NE3 to use for my worship team. It's been amazing and I love it to death. The only thing I wish was that I had the ability to layer different sounds with it. With the stage out of reach at the moment, I was wondering if it was possible use the NE3 in conjunction with soft synths. Im currently using a studiolive mixer. Something along the line of:

Playing the NE3 (NE3 connected to mixer via DI box. NE3 also connected to MBP with MIDI-to-USB dongle. MBP runs omnisphere which is controlled by the NE3 and outputs sound over a USB-audio interface like the FocusRite 2in2 which then goes into another DI box to the mixer. Hopefully all of this results in:

NE3 piano/e.piano sounds +
Omnisphere sounds

I love the sample section I've found here on the forums and from the official library. Those, however, make it hard for me to use the NE3 for what (I think it excels at): great piano/e.piano sounds (I don't use the organ much or at all). Instead of playing pad sounds (think warm, deep - I've used the Hanon_pad haha) and synth leads and all that jazz off of the Electro 3, I can stick to what it's good at and use my MBP to put out sound from Omnisphere (and from watching others and reading reviews, this thing is supposed to be amazing). My budget is flexible (preferably under 1000)...omnisphere + usb audio interface is roughly 500-600~. I've got everything else.

Please let me know what you think! And thank you for your help.

_kanon wrote:Hi! I'm hoping to get some feedback here if possible (particularly from Hanon since I saw him reply on a similar topic).

I recently purchased a NE3 to use for my worship team. It's been amazing and I love it to death. The only thing I wish was that I had the ability to layer different sounds with it. With the stage out of reach at the moment, I was wondering if it was possible use the NE3 in conjunction with soft synths. Im currently using a studiolive mixer. Something along the line of:

Playing the NE3 (NE3 connected to mixer via DI box. NE3 also connected to MBP with MIDI-to-USB dongle. MBP runs omnisphere which is controlled by the NE3 and outputs sound over a USB-audio interface like the FocusRite 2in2 which then goes into another DI box to the mixer.

In principle that should work, but there might be some gotchas.

Also, the Scarlett 2i2 already has balanced outputs, so you could skip the 2nd DI box and directly connect the 2i2 with balanced cables (TRS jacks) to the StudioLive mixer without any loss of quality.

I briefly looked at getting a Presonus StudioLive mixer myself, so I'm a bit familiar with it; wouldn't you be able to skip the 2i2 and connect your laptop via firewire to the StudioLive, so you get your Omnisphere sound directly in a (stereo) channel on the mixer? Of course, that requires your laptop to have a firewire port and maybe there's already some other device connected to the mixer for recording purposes.

How would you run Omnisphere on the MBP? Would you run it stand-alone, or in some DAW or plugin host?

As to the gotchas I mentioned: I see two.

If you change programs on the NE3, Omnisphere will also change programs - I think that is a good thing though. You could carefully set up your NE3 and Omnisphere so that programs on the NE3 and Omnisphere match. For example, program 1 in the NE3 and program 1 on Omnisphere are supposed to be used together. If you then want to play something where you either want the NE3 or Omnisphere to be silent, create a silent program for that location. For example, program 5 on the NE3 might be an organ sound, while program 5 on Omnisphere has 0 volume.

You would then only change programs on the Nord and Omnisphere would happily follow. Of course, you could also configure the Nord not to send any program change messages, which would allow you to switch programs on the NE3 without Omnisphere changing programs.

The second gotcha has to do with transposing the keyboard; I don't see a good way of doing this, unless Omnisphere itself (or the DAW/plugin host you run it in) has an option to do this. You might however be able to work around this by pitching up (or down) the oscillators in a patch. For example, if C3 on the NE3 needs to play C5 in Omnisphere, it will probably work fine if you pitch the oscillators in Omnisphere up 24 semitones.

_kanon wrote:My budget is flexible (preferably under 1000)...omnisphere + usb audio interface is roughly 500-600~.

You could start without a USB audio device and run a cable from the MBP's audio output to a DI box and then to the mixer. The quality will likely be better via a decent external interface though.

And if you want to get really fancy and get rid of the computer, you could have a look at a Muse Research MuseBox or Receptor - these are essentially special purpose computers optimized for music applications and they should be more reliable than a computer. They're also well outside your budget. There's also the SM Pro Audio V-Machine, which does something similar but is much more affordable (should fit well within your budget). I don't have any experience with either line of products (and I'm a bit skeptical about whether the V-Machine can run a heavy plugin such as Omnisphere), but it might be worth looking into it.

• http://www.museresearch.com/products/musebox.php
• http://www.museresearch.com/products/index.php
• http://www.smproaudio.com/index.php/en/ ... /v-machine

Edit: additional gotcha - the NE3 doesn't have a mod wheel, though I suppose you could use an expression pedal. I can imagine quite a lot of Omnisphere sounds make use of the mod wheel.

Wow, thanks for all of the information MJ.

As for the Studiolive mixer, the plan was to connect a computer to it to take advantage of it the presonus software that allows for QMix to work. QMix if you didn't know is an app/program that allows users to control their own mix wireless (via iphones/ipods). It would look like this Mixer > Computer > Wifi Point > Qmix. Although technically I supposed I could run omnisphere along with it...but then again my mixer is with the sound guy and I'd rather have my computer beside me haha.

Currently my church has it's keys set up like the aforementioned. Keyboard>>computer>>Focusrite>>DI>>snake>>mixer. Im copying their setup (but I dont know if there are redundancies, it's working great for them) You said that I could skip the the 2nd DI. I have one currently for a loop track and a click track using this: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SDirectPlus/ It's a handy thing though the quality might not match say Radial's equipment (unfortunately the budget doesnt allow for that kind of awesomeness. One day though). My plan was to connect it in the same way. NE3 mono >> TR >> DI >> XLR Out >> Mixer and then NE3 >> MIDI-USB dongle >> MacBook Pro >> USB Interface >> TR >> DI >> XLR Out>> Mixer. How's that sound?

I'd be using MainStage 2.0 + Omnisphere I think.

So essentially what you're saying about the program gotcha is that I have to be careful and particular about how I program the NE3 and correspondingly, Omnisphere. I don't think programs also capture system changes on the NE3 correct? As in like the transpose function won't change regardless of what program I'm in, it's separate.

Thanks for the other options, I'm pretty set on Omnisphere ( I think...I've heard and seen what it can do. Crazy stuff) though. I also have the computer already. Maybe enough fiddling around with everything will give me the info I need hahah. Please continue to help out if you can, it's great having knowledgeable people give advice.

Cheers!

Also. I could get a expressions pedal, though I don't know how that works in tandom with a sustain pedal. Can you do both in a way that's not awkward? Do you even need both lol. I'm okay with out one since most of the stuff I'll play are deeper/warm pads and the occasional synth lead.

*Edit*

I was actually planning on controlling Omnisphere via iPad. So my iPad would be sitting on my nord for easy access. All I really need to do is be able to switch between sounds and instruments though I supposed using programs could work in the same way and be more efficient. Thoughts?

_kanon wrote:My plan was to connect it in the same way. NE3 mono >> TR >> DI >> XLR Out >> Mixer and then NE3 >> MIDI-USB dongle >> MacBook Pro >> USB Interface >> TR >> DI >> XLR Out>> Mixer. How's that sound?

Looks fine to me.

_kanon wrote:So essentially what you're saying about the program gotcha is that I have to be careful and particular about how I program the NE3 and correspondingly, Omnisphere. I don't think programs also capture system changes on the NE3 correct? As in like the transpose function won't change regardless of what program I'm in, it's separate.

You mean changes in the System menu of the NE3? That shouldn't result in MIDI being sent.

_kanon wrote:Also. I could get a expressions pedal, though I don't know how that works in tandom with a sustain pedal. Can you do both in a way that's not awkward?

Well, technically it would work, but practice might be a different matter.

I was actually planning on controlling Omnisphere via iPad. So my iPad would be sitting on my nord for easy access. All I really need to do is be able to switch between sounds and instruments though I supposed using programs could work in the same way and be more efficient. Thoughts?

Well, using something like the Yamaha Set List Organizer might be interesting (I don't know it though). And MainStage can do some interesting stuff and might just solve the gotchas I saw.

mjbrands wrote:I don't know if you were intending to use the E3 HP as a MIDI keyboard for Logic, but if you are you should connect both MIDI in/out and the audio outputs and turn on the MIDI Local Control setting off. With this setting disabled, when you press a key on the Nord, it sends out a MIDI message but no longer sends it to it's internal 'sound engine'. You can then have Logic send it back to the Nord, if you happen to have the Nord selected in Logic (might also be some other instrument, like a synth). The advantage of this is that Logic can fully control the Nord's sound engine and can compensate for audio and MIDI latency (on playback). Additionally, you can play Logic (Mainstage) instruments and the Nord will only make sound if you want it to. This makes the Nord play nicely with soft synths, etc.

Note that you need to disable this Local Control setting every time you start up the Nord. This is so people don't return their Nords for maintenance because its not making sound anymore

Hey MJ!

So I've recently gotten around to getting equipment to use my Electro 3 as a midi controller. Can I confirm some things with you. So if I turn off MIDI Local Control on my Electro 3, it will no longer play sounds if connected to say a PA system. My question now is how do I use the Nords internal sounds like you've mentioned here in an older thread? I've opted to skip omnisphere until I can figure out the above. I'm still using mainstage, a usb-interface (for macbook out >> mixer) and the midi-usb cable to go from my NE3 to macbook pro.

_kanon wrote:So if I turn off MIDI Local Control on my Electro 3, it will no longer play sounds if connected to say a PA system.

It will no longer play sounds when you play the local keyboard, board if the Electro receives MIDI messages in the MIDI IN port it will play sound (provided they arrive on the correct MIDI channel). When you turn Local Control off, you tell the Electro to no longer send a 'copy' of the MIDI messages generated when you play the local keyboard to the built-in 'sound engine'. MIDI messages till get sent out the MIDI OUT port though and the sound engine still respond to MIDI messages received on MIDI IN - this also means that when you turn Local Control off and plug a MIDI cable between the MIDI OUT and MIDI IN ports, you can still play your Electro.

When you turn your Electro off and back on again, Local Control defaults back to on.

_kanon wrote:My question now is how do I use the Nords internal sounds like you've mentioned here in an older thread? I've opted to skip omnisphere until I can figure out the above. I'm still using mainstage, a usb-interface (for macbook out >> mixer) and the midi-usb cable to go from my NE3 to macbook pro.

You set Local Control to off, so you can use your Electro as a controller for Mainstage - this means the Electro will not make sound when you play the local keyboard. You then connect the Electro's MIDI OUT port to the MIDI IN port of your computer's MIDI interface and connect your computer's MIDI OUT port to your Electro's MIDI IN port - the Electro can now send MIDI to your computer (need since you want to use it as a controller) and the computer can now send MIDI to the sound engine of your Electro, since you want Mainstage to control that.

Now check the MIDI channel settings in your Electro and in Mainstage and make sure the channel used matches. Note that for the organ you have an upper and a lower manual; the upper manual uses the regular MIDI channel setting, while the lower manual uses an additional setting, Lower MIDI channel.

While you could connect the outputs of your Electro directly to the mixer, that is not what you want to do for a number of reasons; instead, connect them to the audio inputs if your audio interface. This allows Mainstage to compensate for any delays caused by MIDI, etc (so the internal sounds of Mainstage and sounds made by your Electro run perfectly in sync) and it also allows you to apply additional effects (Mainstage) to the sound made by your Electro, like reverb or flanger.

Getting this to work is one thing, but getting this to work -the way you want- for a live situation is another and will take some time to figure out and set up. For example, since Mainstage is controller your Electro's sound engine and you're controlling Mainstage from the Electro's keyboard (and knobs, etc) you may need to 'teach' Mainstage what you want specific buttons on the Electro to do. For example, out of the box the drawbar buttons probably don't do what you want them to do (Mainstage doesn't know what to do with them) - I think you can 'teach' Mainstage what you want them to do, but I never tested that myself. Another example is changing programs on the Electro; that will now change programs in Mainstage. If the sound engine in the Electro needs to change program in response to you changing the program on the Electro, you need to configure Mainstage to do that. For example, program 16 in Mainstage might correspond to program 70 in the Electro and program 17 might correspond to program 11 in the Electro. If you are on program 16 and switch to program 17 on the Electro, Mainstage will switch from 16 to 17 and tell the Electro to switch to 11 (from 70).

This might all be a bit confusing, but if you play around with it, I think it will become much clearer. You can set up Mainstage exactly the way you want, but for a home situation that probably wouldn't really be needed since you could just grab the mouse and change some stuff.

Please don't hesitate to ask additional question or ask for clarification if I was unclear. I have Mainstage myself, but don't use it much (I mostly use Ableton Live).

Thanks for the quick replay MJ. Your help has been invaluable.

I've gotten to play around with everything and so far so good. Here's what I've managed to do so far:

-Control pads/keys/patches in mainstage with my NE3 (hurray)
-Control faders in mainstage via an iPad app.

Here's what I'm going to try and figure out now:

-The biggest thing: Changing between internal sounds using Mainstage. I'm not quite sure how to do this. I know Mainstage doesn't accept SysEx information. BUT I might be able to bypass that using the "Send CC" function. But honestly I have no idea what midi information that contains. Does that have information on what instrument the Nord is currently using?

-2nd biggest thing: using the knobs on the nord to control faders in Mainstage WITHOUT controlling whatever internal sound effects those knobs originally contained. To do this I'm thinking you have to just make sure Mainstage doesn't send midi information back to any of the "proper channel" for those knobs. Example being: reverb knob on the NE3 is in Midi channel 1, subchannel 88. If Mainstage sends midi information back to that channel, it'll change the reverb. Likewise if it sends it back for anything like the phase/flanger channels, it'll change that internally too. I think...

The last thing I can think of at the moment is that in a perfect world, Mainstage would be able to switch instruments on my Nord just by recognizing that the particular instrument in use. Say I switch to a patch with:

1 pad
1 NE3 Rhodes

Ideally I'd like my Nord to make that switch to the Rhodes when I switch patches. But I have a feeling that it's a bit too complicated for Mainstage. Instead what I probably will have to do (if it even works) is assign buttons to all of my internal NE3 sounds that store the "Send CC" information" and when I switch patches that switch NE3 sounds, just select the appropriate patch. Now, it might be possible to write an apple script of some kind (basic if programming..?) to determine what NE3 patch is needed by mainstage (maybe by name) and then automatically pressing the button for the "Send CC" information. I have no idea if it could work but that would be an even more fluid transition.

**Edit**
I realized and I think you might of mentioned this: you can probably change program information (like the NE3s Program A/B | #1,2,3,etc) via midi...but I'm not exactly sure how. There's still a lot to learn!

**Edit 2**

So I found a program called SysEx Librarian:http://www.snoize.com/SysExLibrarian/ The reason for using this program lies with the fact that Mainstage cannot accept SysEx MIDI information...thus you can't change patches and sounds...at least not normally. This program is able to listen for SysEx dumps and record them. If you set the output of a button in MS3 to SysEx Librarian, assign a unique program change, and then match that up with the proper SysEx information in SysEx Librarian, you should be able to have Mainstage signal Librarian to send the SysEx information back to your synthesizer or in my case, my NE3. Thus you can change sounds on the NE3 through your computer! I'm haven't tried this yet but from the information I've seen so far it should work without too much trouble. Now....to figure out how to Applescript it so it works without me having to press anything...AKA using the applescript to send out the unique program change midi information instead of a button. Now that would pretty cool

Let me know what you think! I appreciate it again. Thanks