How to create Metal Palm Mute rhythm guitar patch?

[EricBarker]

For the past 15 years, I've used a Laptop/Mainstage rig in bands that needed a second rhythm guitar. I was an early adopter of the "Shreddage" Kontakt VI, paired with a high-gain amp model like a Mesa DuelRect. It was the first time I was able to play some heavy metal guitar riffs on a keyboard that didn't make me cringe. But over the years I've grown tired of the MainStage workflow, and recently got a Stage3. I'm having a great time recreating a lot of my patches to work in a live setting. But I'm absolutely stuck trying to create a good metal rhythm guitar patch. I spent a few hours last week going through samples and Clavinets, amp settings, and THOUGHT I'd dialed one in. I played it in rehearsal and was massively let down. As my drummer said, "Sounds like music from Doom, 1993... which is kinda cool, the kids dig that". Oooof, not really the reaction I was going for.

Has anyone had any success creating some legitimately good palm-muted rhythm guitar patches? I see tons of decent "Metal Lead Guitar", acoustic and clean rhythm guitar, but nothing seriously crunchy. I'm about to dive in and just sample Shreddage, but I fear I won't be able to get a good amp tone on the board. I could sample it with distortion, but that always ends up sounding very fake in performance.

Any thoughts?

[PolishPrince]

You already have the answer. Sample through Shreddage and AmpliTube or your favorite amp sim. That's going to be the best way. I would avoid the internal amp sim of the Nord in this case.

[WannitBBBad]

Hello, and welcome to the Forum! I'd love to hear an example of what you are looking for with Shreddage if you have an opportunity to post a mp3. I agree with PolishPrince that sampling might be the best answer, but I might have a suggestion or two after hearing more.

[EricBarker]

Hello, and welcome to the Forum! I'd love to hear an example of what you are looking for with Shreddage if you have an opportunity to post a mp3. I agree with PolishPrince that sampling might be the best answer, but I might have a suggestion or two after hearing more.

Thanks for the welcome! Here's a few samples:

Eel House - Farewell to the Taliban
Ana Lemma - 412A
Ana Lemma - Zum Zum Zur (metal remix)

[WannitBBBad]

Thanks for the welcome! Here's a few samples:

Eel House - Farewell to the Taliban
Ana Lemma - 412A
Ana Lemma - Zum Zum Zur (metal remix)

Thanks, that's helpful. I've put together some guitar programs (link below) but none capture the attack needed for that rhythm crunch without some work. Taking mono off the lead guitar synth used in the programs to play cords might be helpful for you to see if any can get you closer to what you are looking for. I do think that sampling might be your best option so you get the guitar and amp sound used on your songs that's quite good. Try sampling the guitar and amp without any other effects (chorus, delay, reverb,..) and feel free to PM me if you have any questions on that. Take care.
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[EricBarker]

Thanks, that's helpful. I've put together some guitar programs (link below) but none capture the attack needed for that rhythm crunch without some work. Taking mono off the lead guitar synth used in the programs to play cords might be helpful for you to see if any can get you closer to what you are looking for. I do think that sampling might be your best option so you get the guitar and amp sound used on your songs that's quite good. Try sampling the guitar and amp without any other effects (chorus, delay, reverb,..) and feel free to PM me if you have any questions on that. Take care.
post112680.html#p112680

Thanks, I'll check those out. Yeah, I'll probably need to resort to sampling the amp. I've always been weary of that, since playing any chords or polyphonic material sounds very wrong not going through an amp. But this is a Live board, I'll never use it in the studio (heck, I'll hire a real guitarist for final recordings). I'll probably create a Power Chord patch and a Single Note patch and morph between them with the mod wheel or choose which one I need for a particular program. That's actually how Shreddage is designed, originally. The only difference is I'll be sampling my amp setup too. One thing I may try is putting on just a touch of amp distortion after the sample to slightly reproduce harmonic distortion when playing multiple notes. Not sure if that will work like I intend, but it's worth a shot. This will be my first time doing custom samples, so wish me luck!

[WannitBBBad]

Yes, I think it would be worth the time to sample the guitar and then sample the guitar and amp combo so you have more options available to you. Good luck!

[EricBarker]

I did it! And it’s gonna work. I got a pretty harsh reality check on how limited the Nord Sample engine is, coming from Kontakt. Was all prepared to do velocity layers and release samples, and got neither. However, I was surprised at how decent the result was. I had to sacrifice actual palm mutes since that would be a velocity layer, but with fast power chord riffs, a short attack doesn’t really lose much. It’ll translate fine for live in a mix, which is what the stage is all about.

I play bass on a PolyD. I found that by connecting a midi cable, I could setup certain programs to also fill out the space with rhythm guitar. So the full effect, along with loud drums, RH keys, and bass will be absolutely fine! But good god, would it be so hard to add velocity layers to their engine? That’s like circa 1998!

I’d love to share this patch with the community but I’m a little dubious about copyright infringement, since I’m sampling a commercial product… even if it’s passing through loads of amp sim.

[PolishPrince]

Let's here it! At least give us an mp3 of your new sample and a drum track. Or maybe a short youtube video.

[WannitBBBad]

That's great, I'm glad it worked for you! I'd like to hear it too if you get a chance to record it. Take care