In-ear monitors

[Ritchie333]

In-ear monitors seem to be the way to go these days. You get better sound isolation, can hear things more clearly, and don't need loud amps on stage to compete with other instruments. The Nord Stage's monitor input jack makes running a set of in-ear monitors pretty straightforward. Or so I thought....

Anyway, a few months back, I decided to invest in a Shure SL-215 Pro headphones. I was the last one in the band to make the jump to using personal in-ears, thinking "well, they can't all be wrong". I ran the main outputs from my Stage to the desk as normal, and took a monitor channel from there into the monitor input mini jack on the stage, with the SL-215s plugged into the headphone output. It sounded great at first, but after a month or two, the drivers in one of the headphones burned out and stopped producing any sound.

Part of the problem I have is I play the only instrument with no on-stage sound at all. Drums make a sound when you hit them, same with playing brass instruments, or singing, and guitars and basses go through amps (I know you can DI both of these and use amp sims, but sometimes you've got to pick your battles). So I think I needed to send a louder signal into the in-ears in order to hear myself over the ambient noise in stage, driving them too hard and burning them out. Has anyone else had this issue? I'm kind of crestfallen to have to go back to lugging an amp around again, and have a stage mix that's not as good as what I did have. Is there anything I could have differently, or better? In particular, should I have used a dedicated headphone amp instead of piggybacking off the Stage's monitor input?

[Schorsch]

Yes, I would recommend a dedicated in-ear amp. I’m using a Fisher Amp hardwired in ear belt pack which does the job very well: https://www.fischer-amps.de/in-ear-moni ... rticle-228

I would also recommend a decent pair of in-ear monitors, the Shure is not really a good one. Look at Westone Pro series, Pro-X30 for example which have quite a good quality at an acceptable price: https://www.westoneaudio.eu/collections ... ts/pro-x30

Your ears will say “thank you”

[FZiegler]

I see how you can burst your tympanum with the help of in-ear monitors, but I don't understand how you can destroy IEMs without the tympanum as well. They should be able to sound veeery loud.

But what the heck are you doing with the monitor-in of the poor Stage? You send the keys to the desk, get a monitor signal back (including the keys?) and root it again through the Stage? That should result in a loop, no? And you don't have a control to lower or raise the band's volume...

[ajstan]

I use a Radial Key Largo keyboard mixer and a Rolls PM55P headphone mixer. The Key Largo Main Outs go to the main board and the Key Largo Monitor Outs go to the Rolls Monitor In. I then take an Aux feed from the main board into the Mic In of the Rolls which contains everything else I want to hear minus keyboards. I then have separate knobs to control the volume of my keyboards (without affecting the sound to the FOH), and the Aux feed from everyone else.

As for IEMs, many people swear by the KZ ZS10 Pro which have 5 drivers and cost <$50 in the US. If you don't like them, then at least you have an inexpensive back-up set. I use the Westone AM Pro 30 IEMS, which are ambient so I can hear some stage volume and the audience, while still hearing instruments at a comfortable level. If you like sealed IEMs, then there are plenty of options.

[M1tsos]

I use a Radial Key Largo keyboard mixer and a Rolls PM55P headphone mixer. The Key Largo Main Outs go to the main board and the Key Largo Monitor Outs go to the Rolls Monitor In. I then take an Aux feed from the main board into the Mic In of the Rolls which contains everything else I want to hear minus keyboards. I then have separate knobs to control the volume of my keyboards (without affecting the sound to the FOH), and the Aux feed from everyone else.

As for IEMs, many people swear by the KZ ZS10 Pro which have 5 drivers and cost <$50 in the US. If you don't like them, then at least you have an inexpensive back-up set. I use the Westone AM Pro 30 IEMS, which are ambient so I can hear some stage volume and the audience, while still hearing instruments at a comfortable level. If you like sealed IEMs, then there are plenty of options.

Westone is a very decent brand..

Shure is in very lower level at the in ears and extremely overpriced value for money.. with same amount of money for shure you can get very good westones

As for kz zs10 pro.. this in ears are very bad from all the ways even the crossover points are not right….. the place in the ear is bad. Which makes your ear hurt after 20-30 minutes of wearing.. also they have supersonics they can damage the ear because of freq response at 43000 hz ( if i remember correct ) this 43000 hz they might not pass all over the 20khz because almost all mixers etc having max 20khz freq response. But the harmonics are affected in a way that can still do some dmg the ear after a lot time of using these in ears for example the 20khz that you get from that in ear kz is oscillating the ear drum in a very fast way and in a way that the ear cant really hear and understand .. but a hearing doctor can warranty for hearing damage after long time of using supersonics in your ear.. ask your hearing doctor about it because my english are not good enought to give a very good explanation about it.. i dont know the right english words to explain it better

if you want a serious sound engineering opinion on that.. just avoid kz and any kind of cheap in ears…

You should love your self you should love your ears and buy for your ears a good pair of in ear monitors.. westone is a very decent one.. also some of the top ones are jerry harvey, 64audio and ultimate ears

[Kaffimusic]

Well...
first of all I guess your band is too loud. A common problem and one that is expected to never go away unless you find a different band with different people who understand.
I encountered that problem many times and the solution for me was not in ear monitoring, but also hearing protection (after I aquired a nice tinnitus thanks to our new bassplayer).
Why no in-ears for me? I do not like them. I feel they disconnect me from what´s happening on stage. And to some degree I need the feeling of some volume that I can feel on my body. I need to feel the vibrations of the bass and bassdrum and also when I punch my keys, to happen something I can feel in the air. Physically. This does not need to be so very loud, but yes, some volume should be there. Some kind of "being embedded in the sound". Like a warm blanket when playing (lol). After all, that´s rock´n roll.
I once attended to a band that played in-ear only. The drums were electic. They only had speakers to the front, but nothing on stage. No guitaramps, no monitors, nothing. All musicians heard the music though their in-ears. It was bizarre. There was nothing physical to hear on stage, exept the feet moving, clicking of keys, acoustic sound of electric guitar and bass and the electric drum tackling. I just can say it was bizarre. There was nothing happening, as if that what they do is not playing together in the now and here. Like being online.

I have a small mixing console on stage, the main outs go to the main mix, the FX-sends are used for my personal monitor. I have a high quality but compact active spaker (that has also a small mixer included, so I can use that only when I just have one keyboard with me and play mono) and this can get as loud as it wants, but still does not destroy the rest of my hearing. Because I have in-ear protection.

The in-ear protection is like your in-ear monitoring, but instead of the driver there is a good filter. All volume is lowered a considerable amount, but all frequencies are still there. It sounds great. Just the volume is lower, but I can hear everything and way more detailed then I could back then without. And I still can have the physical sensation of the punch in the air when it is appropriate.
The good thing about this is, I can even hear good enough when we are not playing, I can hear what people say. I had lots of gigs where I simply did not pull the plugs out of my ears between the sets.

So, what is the benefit for me instead of having In-ear monitoring?
1. I do my own monitoring. I have sound even when the mixing-guy pulled me down
2. All the stagesound is still there
3. No problems with other musicians regarding communication and having my own monitor as well - they can hear me from there when they want or needed.
4. I do not need to bother any more about drummers, bassplayers, guitars (!) having no control about what they do. They can turn up all the way they want, I hear myself.

I should have done that way earlier in my life.

As far as I know you can also get filters instead of drivers for your in-ear monitors. Maybe that is a way for you to go.

[Ritchie333]

But what the heck are you doing with the monitor-in of the poor Stage? You send the keys to the desk, get a monitor signal back (including the keys?) and root it again through the Stage? That should result in a loop, no? And you don't have a control to lower or raise the band's volume...

The monitor input mini-jack on a Nord Stage only sends its signal to the headphone out, not the others. So I could send a signal to the desk on outs 1-4, and it wouldn't contain any of the monitor in. The mixer is an Allen & Heath QU24 which gives each band member a personal mix, controllable via iOS or Android. So I just muted me in my monitor mix as the Stage was already covering it. Hence, no feedback.

[verbalakrobat]

The monitor input mini-jack on a Nord Stage only sends its signal to the headphone out, not the others.

However, the NS3 manual sais (and I can confirm): "The Monitor In signal is routed to the Headphones and Ch 1&2 outputs. " Please refer to p.59

[maxpiano]

The monitor input mini-jack on a Nord Stage only sends its signal to the headphone out, not the others.

However, the NS3 manual sais (and I can confirm): "The Monitor In signal is routed to the Headphones and Ch 1&2 outputs. " Please refer to p.59

On NS3 yes, but on Ritchie333's NS2 (if his profile is correct) only to headphones

[Ritchie333]

However, the NS3 manual sais (and I can confirm): "The Monitor In signal is routed to the Headphones and Ch 1&2 outputs. " Please refer to p.59

That's the Stage Three. The Stage Two, however, says "Signals connected to this input will not be processed with the Stage 2's effects or appear at the line level output jacks 1-4". (p. 56)

Yes, Maxpiano is right - I wasn't convinced that the Stage 3 was sufficiently better than the Stage 2 to upgrade, so have carried on using the latter.