I'm Starting To Think . . .

[Rusty Mike]

. . . that's it's time to swap out the Stage 2EX 76 that I bought in 2016. And I've got a temptation outside the Nord family

The Stage is my primary rehearsal/gig instrument, used for all my big band and jazz combo stuff. I'm pretty much 75% AP, 15% EP and 10% organ. When I bought the Stage, my jazz fusion band was ramping up, and the synth section of the Stage was important for leads and pads. The fusion thing is pretty dead now, so the synth section is no longer needed. If it's ever resurrected, I still have an Electro 6D 73 that I can use as a top tier, and will cover that stuff just fine.

While I don't play a whole lot of organ, the quality and flexibility is important to me. It needs to have the right controls in addition to a good sound.

Given that, I've been aiming to move to another weighted action Electro, and was hoping to see an Electro 7 HP soon. The biggest hope is that Nord replaces the HP action with the newer Fatar TP110, which would hopefully be a bit better. Now let me just stay that I've never had an issue with the TP100 in a live setting - it's always been responsive and sensitive enough to play just fine. It would be nice, however, to see an upgrade in the feel. We just don't know when/if Nord will release the next generation of Electro instruments.

As a result, I've been looking at the Yamaha YC73 pretty hard lately. It checks a lot of boxes, but there are still a few unanswered questions until I can get one to play.

1. The pianos are decent from I can hear on the demos. Granted, they are all variations of Yamaha pianos, and lean toward a bit bright for my tastes, but it would seem some EQ can tame that. Playing the music that I do, I'm more interested in blending in than cutting through. I also strongly prefer a darker and warmer piano to mimic the jazz recordings from the 50's and 60's. There is hope in some of the pianos in the YC series that I can get a few to work just fine. On the Stage, I only currently use the White Grand and the Amber Upright, each for their various qualities. The CFX sounds like it can be tamed a bit, and I've always liked the S700 piano sound as well. As much as I like Nord's respect for upright pianos, I downright can't stand how other manufacturers treat them like some kind of carnival novelty. Even in it's best state, I've always felt the U1 to be too stringy and brittle, and Yamaha does absolutely no justice to it with their CP/YC sample.
2. The organ section is pretty nice, specially now with the OS 1.2 update. It sounds like there is a lot of character and flexibility to it. You can even have the percussion defeat the 1' drawbar (ARE YOU LISTENING NORD?). It seems possible to get that smokey, spitty sound that's perfect for Jimmy McGriff emulations. I think that the different organ models are selected per patch (I could be wrong). The YC does not have an option for a high trigger point, but trying to play organ on a weighted action imposes limitations anyway.
3. The other stuff is just a bonus that I may or may not make use of. The character of the FM engine seems good, and may come in handy if the fusion groups kicks in a gain and I need some lead sounds. I'm not a big user of pads for traditional jazz, so it doesn't matter much.
4. While the piano capabilities of the YC are more limited compared to the CP, it is still overall a more appealing option. I would not be happy with the pseudo-organ as it's implemented in the CP, and that is a big strike against it. What ever other piano-oriented nuances are in the CP (does it have string resonance?) would be lost on the stage anyway.

I'm not sure about Yamaha's Balanced Hammer Action. I played a CP73 when it first came out and thought was okay but not great. Again, I'll have to get my hands on one to get a feel for it. It may be too soft to play in the context of a band, as it's not really called a weighted action.

It's about 2 pounds heavier than the Stage - not the direction I wanted to go as I get older, and another reason to hope a new Electro is on the near horizon.

If anyone has experience with the YC73, or even the CP73 with regard to the action, I appreciate hearing your thoughts.

Mike

[Rusty Mike]

Mike-

Here is a detailed thread about the 88 and 73:

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/17 ... nt-2836823

-dj

[Rusty Mike]

Thanks DJ. I read through that thread and a bunch of other reviews and videos. I need to get my hands on one.

[OrpheusNY]

I have always thought…

that the Yamaha CP and YC lines were designed from the ground up to poach customers from Nord. I have a CP-88 myself.

[Rusty Mike]

Agreed. Someone would have had to see Nord’s success with this approach and see some opportunity.

One of the main things that have shied me away from other brands is the relative lack of continued improvement. Many models are released as a “one and done” approach; you want more features? Buy our next greatest thing. Yamaha seem to show at least some interest in CP/YC longevity with the OS updates. Not up to Nord-level flexibility, but still pretty good.

Kurzweil does a nice job of continuous software improvements. I owned a PC3 for several years, but really couldn’t connect with it. It was deep and robust but programming was complex and time consuming. The sound set is strongly biased toward the rock crowd (not my thing), and I never jelled with the KB3 engine despite investing many hours in trying to get an optimal sound for myself. It was just too quirky and difficult for how I’d want to use it.

While other offerings from companies like Crumar and Dexibell have some appeal, I’d be concerned about the rarity of these instruments regarding repair and resale here in the US.

I’m in NYC later this week, and may get some time to stop by Sam Ash to try it out.

[IanzKeys]

I have a 10 year old CP300, which I now mainly just use for practicing on and as a controller for plug-ins. For a pianist, I still think the action on the CP-300 is better than the Stage 3.

Here's the "but"... playing the Stage 3 is a much better overall experience. I've gigged on a CP-88 recently, and I still prefer the Stage 3. The Yamaha pianos are too perfect, whereas the Nord pianos have imperfections and character.

Having said all that, if I'd never played a Stage 3, the CP-88 would be top of my list.

[kirsty]

Hiya Mike

I was in the music shop earlier this year and saw a YC73 on display. Was eager to try it out for the various reasons you listed on your first post. Supposed better action, the s700 piano that was popular with lots of studios at one point etc.

First impressions were, the action was very nice, it felt tight and posh. The AP sounds were typical Yamaha, dated thin lifeless synthetically clean samples and very underwhelming - even the s700 that I had wanted to try out badly didn't inspire me at all sadly and I really wanted to like it.
Round the corner to the Nord stand and the Piano 5 was there and you straight away hear why the Nord AP's are a world apart. I ended up buying a Piano 5 73 to upgrade my Electro 5HP as the NP5 action in the 73 key board is notably tighter and more positively weighted than the HP action in the NE. Yamaha YC action had the slight edge on feel, but absolutely nothing wrong with the HA action in the NP whatsoever. Appreciate the NP wont meet your needs with the organs though!

Regards the Yamaha.... Dont do it Mike haha

[Rusty Mike]

Hi kirsty!

Thank you so much for your honest input. I had actually forgot all about the sterile and “perfect” quality of the Yamaha piano samples. Thanks for reminding me of that (you as well IanzKeys!). I do also agree that the Nord HA action plays very nicely, based on my limited experience with it. It is simply more weight than I care to lug.

My home studio piano is a Roland RD800. Using the Piano Designer, I created two custom pianos for myself based on their Grand and Studio Grand models, which have more warmth and character than the factory patches. The action is great, but I only use the internal sounds for practicing. Most of the time it controls my Electro 6D or VST’s for recordings or when I want to be immersed. And that thing will never leave the house due to the weight.

Yamaha’s attempt at pianos with character are, like I said earlier, rather comical and unusable. I simply don’t understand why these manufacturers think that all upright pianos need to sound like honky tonks from an 1890’s saloon.

I have good memories of the S700 sound from an S90 that I used to use (not mine, but I played it a fair bit). Maybe my memory is that it was the best of what was in there at the time, and the bar might have been rather low.

I’m certainly in no rush to buy anything new, as the Stage is just fine. There is no harm in simply waiting to see what Nord does next. Your sage comments will be front and center for me when I do get to playing the YC. Thank you again for your comments.

Mike

[Hlaalu]

Mike, I too have been looking with interest on the YC series since when it came out, now after reading this thread I was looking at it more closely and something caught my eye. Look at the percussion section of the organ: the buttons are in inverted order?? All the way to the right with the on/off switch being the rightmost. I took the picture from Thomann, I assume it's not a pre-production version but the current one. Now why do that!?

Also: each button apart from the on/off has two leds. This means 3 leds are always going to be lit when you look, and you lose the instant recognition of which kind of percussion settings you are onto. Again makes little sense, and combined with the inverted order, in my opinion, makes the use of percussion much less straightforward and instinctive than it could be. Never seen a clone's percussion layout like this.

You said that organ isn't your main focus, so this may be not as relevant to you, but still, for me, a layout like this would be enough to make me reconsider my purchase, because it would significantly affect the organ's playability.

[Rusty Mike]

Hello Hlaalu,

That’s a good observation - I had not noticed that.

I don’t really mess with the percussion settings while playing, it’s pretty much the standard Jimmy Smith Soft/Fast/3rd setting. I do toggle percussion on and off a lot, which is why Nord’s removal of the 1’ drawbar defeat is so annoying. With the top drawbar set to about 5, turning off percussion used to give that little bit of shimmer to the top end for comping. That’s gone now. Even more maddening is Nord’s reason for taking it away (we just felt like it) and their stubborn refusal to put it back.

Another thing the YC is missing that I make use of is the Preset button. I usually keep the “B” key preset as my default setting and then all drawbars out as the “Bb” preset on the Preset button. This better mimics the true behavior without having to jump programs. The YC doesn’t have a Preset button, but it seem there might be a workaround with the A/B button as long as you don’t need a split keyboard.

Although the perc buttons are reversed, I would imagine with time you develop muscle memory on the button locations, but it does raise another point. For as much as the Nord detractors gripe about the colors, I don’t think anyone has ever complained they can’t read the panel lettering. The YC is not the only offender here, but the small white on black color scheme is more difficult to read.