So about suitable stereo amplification for indoor gigs

[Winds]

First of all, sorry for another similar thread to my previous one (last time about IEMs but that didn't seem to get much attention so trying again here, this time with PA speakers).

My first question, would a pair of QSC CP8 be good enough to accommodate indoor gigs for medium-large venues (generally small halls like 200 pax) and I would primarily be using it just for self-monitoring (so the speakers would be projected to my ears) just so I can get that stereo sound, and it'll be played alongside generally a normal band setup (drum/guitar/bass/singer) or more regularly small acoustic setups (with guitar or cajun or both).

However, my 2nd question is... is there even any point/or is it even worth the effort (to bring those QSC's with a NS3) then in getting that first stereo setup, IF the FOH engineer does not know how or is too lazy to put in stereo, and puts it out in mono anyway like.. what's the point if I can have fun hearing myself in stereo when FOH comes out mono anyway?

Idk maybe I'm missing something

[DavidSydney]

Hi Winds,
If you haven't already done so, read cphollis's (magnificent!) post on this topic: accessories-and-amplification-f8/nord-a ... ml#p110854 which pretty much covers it all!
His closing sentence is: "In most situations, I’d be happy with a pair of QSC K8.2s, which are my current bang-for-buck favorite." There's a thread on the K8.2 vs CP8 accessories-and-amplification-f8/qsc-cp ... ml#p133300

As for why…I've asked myself the same thing, but I am SO much happier (and so play better) when I can hear myself in stereo with my own system. I give FOH a stereo signal from my own DI. They'e often surprised, and say "we usually just run one DI" but I push things a bit and gently let them know these are stereo instruments and have been for about two decades.
Good luck!
David

[Winds]

Yes I did read a bunch.. seems safest choice is still K8.2. What DI do you use then DavidSydney? May I guess it's the Radial JDI Duplex?

[DavidSydney]

Ha! No, Winds, I don't use a Radial JDI Duplex (though I'd be happy to). I built myself a passive mixer/DI. Sums up to four inputs (for me, a Stage, an Electro and an iPad) and provides pass-through to my local amp, and transformer-isolated balanced mic-level output for FOH. No power required. Electronically and functionally pretty similar to the Radial, but with four inputs. And the ability to input stereo signals on one TRS plug. Photos below:

Passive mixer panel

P1000147.jpeg (57.23 KiB) Viewed 2352 times

P1000146.jpeg (87.71 KiB) Viewed 2352 times

[Winds]

Ha! No, Winds, I don't use a Radial JDI Duplex (though I'd be happy to). I built myself a passive mixer/DI. Sums up to four inputs (for me, a Stage, an Electro and an iPad) and provides pass-through to my local amp, and transformer-isolated balanced mic-level output for FOH. No power required. Electronically and functionally pretty similar to the Radial, but with four inputs. And the ability to input stereo signals on one TRS plug. Photos below:

P1000147.jpeg

P1000146.jpeg

Prolly a tough question to answer, but which DI you think could be suitable in my situation IF I were to buy the K8.2? (I don't think I have the know how or time to learn or make a personal DI right now )

[DavidSydney]

I built myself a passive mixer/DI. Sums up to four inputs (for me, a Stage, an Electro and an iPad) and provides pass-through to my local amp, and transformer-isolated balanced mic-level output for FOH.

Very nice. Do you have a circuit diagram to share? What transformers did you use?

[Winds]

You can connect your NS3C directly to the K8.2s and use the output of the monitors to forward the signal to FoH. But it's safer and more versatile to use a DI box (even for IEM). It can be used with IEM or other monitors as well.

In that case usually a passive stereo DI box would fit best, I think. I went for a Palmer PAN 04 (not: 04 A) - but in other parts of the world, there are other brands as well.

[DavidSydney]

I built myself a passive mixer/DI. Sums up to four inputs (for me, a Stage, an Electro and an iPad) and provides pass-through to my local amp, and transformer-isolated balanced mic-level output for FOH.

Very nice. Do you have a circuit diagram to share? What transformers did you use?

Thanks Mr_G. I don't really have a circuit written out, but hopefully this description will help anyone who wants to replicate it:

• The left/stereo inputs are TRS sockets, the right ins are TS switching. The ring of the stereo sockets (the right signal) connects to the switching terminal of the right socket.
• Each input connects to its respective (L/R) summing bus (a simple wire) via a high quality 10k resistor.
• The sockets are wired so that if anything is plugged into a right socket, it disconnects the right signal from the left/stereo side.
• The sum busses connect to the unbalanced outputs

The basic summing circuit came from diyrecordingequipment.com and a Rane technical note. The mono/stereo socket switching I devised myself (I haven't seen it before and, having worked it out, can't understand why it isn't used all the time!).

The transformers are Australian-made http://harbuch.com.au/ AT-111, a 10K:600ohm line transformer a tech friend had salvaged from a decommissioned studio. The secondaries are connected to XLRs.

The earth-lift switch just disconnects the output earths. I might get fancy and add a resistor/capacitor to send RF signals to earth (Jensen transformers have a circuit for this).

I got the case from my tech friend, but it suits my rig: it's velcroed onto the column of my keyboard stand below my lower keyboard.

I went passive because the keyboards have plenty of output level, so the modest losses in passive summing don't matter. I have my eq, effects and level controls on my Nords. I wanted to use stereo TRS cables (run from the headphone outputs) for simplicity, but added the second mono socket to each input for flexibility. There's no extra electronics and no power required.

Hope that's all clear. And hope it inspires others!

David

[DavidSydney]

Prolly a tough question to answer, but which DI you think could be suitable in my situation IF I were to buy the K8.2? (I don't think I have the know how or time to learn or make a personal DI right now )

Winds: Passive (i.e. transformer) DI is the way to go for keyboards. Stereo of course . If all you're using it for is your Stage, any of the ones on the market will do the job. As you pay more, you'll get better build quality and better transformers. The best transformers are (very) expensive and I really don't think you'll really hear the difference between them in a live situation, so go with what you can afford. Radial is, rightly, well-regarded. Most of their models have variants with cheaper and more expensive (Jensen) transformers. As I say, I doubt you'll hear the difference, but if your budget runs to the Jensens… Radial also has some models with a range of connectors that might be handy for other jobs.

Elsewhere on the forum, one Nord player has auditioned a load of DIs so you can hear the differences. While he's got the technicalities of DIs dead wrong (as I've posted!), it's a pretty good list.

All the best,

David

[MarkJames]

Prolly a tough question to answer, but which DI you think could be suitable in my situation IF I were to buy the K8.2? (I don't think I have the know how or time to learn or make a personal DI right now )

Winds: Passive (i.e. transformer) DI is the way to go for keyboards. Stereo of course . If all you're using it for is your Stage, any of the ones on the market will do the job. As you pay more, you'll get better build quality and better transformers. The best transformers are (very) expensive and I really don't think you'll really hear the difference between them in a live situation, so go with what you can afford. Radial is, rightly, well-regarded. Most of their models have variants with cheaper and more expensive (Jensen) transformers. As I say, I doubt you'll hear the difference, but if your budget runs to the Jensens… Radial also has some models with a range of connectors that might be handy for other jobs.

Elsewhere on the forum, one Nord player has auditioned a load of DIs so you can hear the differences. While he's got the technicalities of DIs dead wrong (as I've posted!), it's a pretty good list.

All the best,

David

I’ve been a fan of Radial’s ProD2 which has never let me down but the JDi is supposed to be even better. I’m not sure in a live band setting if the differences would be noticeable though.