Nord User Forum

Well, I'm taking time away from editing work on my stage 3 and grand, primarily because it's tiring work having to do this by hand, without sight having to fine adjust to get values as I want them. So, as I'm away from my keyboards, well, they're to the right of this mac, It's time to lay this on the table...

I go back to the days of vintage mac, yep MacOS 9.2, etc, the days of the blue/white iMac, etc, Emagic SoundDiver and an emagic unitor 8 usb midi interface. editing and controlling various synths, modules, samplers, having OS menus spoken out, etc. Over the years, I've taken on and moved to synths / workstations which had reasonably usable editors, to make certain sound programming jobs easier. now that I'm just a Nord guy, there's a struggle in a particular sense.

I realise that Nord just wants to rely on NSM and NSE3 these days to satisfy various needs, but for me, this does fall short in certain circumstances, like this.

For a sighted person, you can look at a screen, buttons, dive in to them straight off, use touch screens, etc, so your feedback is purely visual, for someone like me, the tactile route is the main way of it, but when trying to edit particular information on a synth, it's either listening to pdf manuals for hints on shortcuts, navigation methods, etc, or having to ask for sighted help, from someone who doesn't understand the equipment at all.

If anyone recalls my comments on NSM and expanding on it, yep, this is a bit of a re-visit, also a call for assistance from the Nord Community.

Besides myself who relies on Nord hardware and has for many years, there are many others who are visually impaired or blind worldwide who either are owners / users, or would want to work with these amazing instruments, they are more tactile and easy to navigate than other instruments on the market. The issue however is based on software support...

As you're aware, Nord relies on OLED displays, so details of control movements are displayed on screen and can be recalled using the shift key whilst rotating a dial as an example, however, unless you can see, you don't know this particular data made available. The dails, though tactile, do not give a true representation of settings used and it would be difficult to copy settings between programs and in my case, it is.

I hereby request this officially and would ask for the support of fellow users here to speak up regarding NSM (Nord Sound Manager) and Editor support or a standalone Editor.

My request is this - either or:

1: Nord Sound Manager to undergo a major update - as this is proprietary software we all rely on for various nord products.
- Incorporate a converter that allows programs and bundles to be translated between instruments )stage - electro - piano - grand - wave 2)
- Enable NS2 program conversion to NS3 and other legacy formats to modern format versions for electro 6, piano, etc.
- Dark Mode for visually impaired users who find light backgrounds difficult -- this is available in the latest and recent builds of MacOS.
- Ability to organise piano library elements even if an item is coded "MISC" to a suitable section of the piano library.
- A built in adaptive editor which recognises the instrument connected and provide full editing functionality for parameters of the instrument so that a screen reader such as VoiceOver on the mac can navigate and edit functions, parameters, etc. This editor would include the ability to copy parameter settings to other programs or between layer A and Layer B of a stage 3 or 4 layers on the Wave 2. The editor would work within NSM so that it has access to sample, synth, piano and program data, so that you can edit without being at the stage or other instrument. Also an offline mode so that if producing sound data with NSE3, the editor can work in conjunction with NSE3 so that program data can be created ready to migrate in to the instrument at a later time, this would allow faster project creation.

2: Construct a pure standalone Editor system as described above.

Besides these two issues of an editor, We need to discuss and encourage Nord to provide access to creating custom Piano Library Instruments. There are a number of sample creators who would benefit from this and offer other interesting pianos, digital pianos, etc to open the Stage, Electro, Piano and Grand to new levels.

Please may I ask all who read this to either add support, agree, or include requests relating to NSM, NSE3 or the editor software I'm discussing here. The more support here, the more that can be presented to Nord for them to look at this further.

It's also a chance to discuss editor / librarian resources for iOS based systems (ipad / ipad pro.

Thank you for your time and patience here,

lewis

Hi Lew, I’m in agreement with you for most of #1, that would be the Swiss Army knife for Nord Instruments. The only part which I am not sure if it would be used a lot is the offline editor function, but that’s because I like to immediately hear the results of settings I create and testing different options when setting up a program

Schorsch wrote:Hi Lew, I’m in agreement with you for most of #1, that would be the Swiss Army knife for Nord Instruments. The only part which I am not sure if it would be used a lot is the offline editor function, but that’s because I like to immediately hear the results of settings I create and testing different options when setting up a program

Thank you, I really appreciate your feedback and support with this.

I can understand your comment regarding the offline editor, but there are a number of editors for certain manufacturers who offer that resource. Say as an example you've worked on a sample from NSE3 but you're not at your stage or similar instrument, yet you need to get a patch / program created to test, you could do that with offline mode, then when you go to your stage with your computer of choice, it would connect, go back to online mode and you can continue from there and upload direct to the instrument. test on the instrument and adjust from the editor on the fly.

I'm not saying to stop using the stage, electro, piano, grand, etc as a tactile editing tool, but when it comes to such functions where a more accessible software based interface would help, that's where I'm coming from.

I did do some research on a tool that was on the nord forum, unfortunately it's completely unusable for blind users, screen reader can't map or object build, therefore it's just an unusable window, like the korg kronos software editor and one other from Yamaha.

lew

Lew,

This is a great idea.

What price range would you pay for ongoing support and maintenance of the product? I'm thinking Nord might have more interest if it were a self-sustaining line of business.

For that matter, if Nord is happy to just focus on the hardware stuff, there's nothing that prevents another company from picking it up. Maybe it could also convert programs between Nords and other popular keyboards that allow users to download and share presets.

Conversion is going to be non-trivial and results will not be identical after a conversion. Example: a Nord Piano 6 preset sent to a Nord Wave.

But having anything at all that's accessible to the visually impaired will increase the number of customers that can really use Nords.

Question: I don't know anything at all about Rolands, Kurzweils or Yamahas. Do any of those permit user-created presets or samples?

Hi Lew,

wasn't it you who some days ago was talking about copyright issues? Maybe I didn't fully understand what you wanted that software to do - but it was meant to play (Nord) sounds without a Nord, wasn't it? So I'm not very confident you could get what you want.

FZiegler wrote:Hi Lew,

wasn't it you who some days ago was talking about copyright issues? Maybe I didn't fully understand what you wanted that software to do - but it was meant to play (Nord) sounds without a Nord, wasn't it? So I'm not very confident you could get what you want.

sorry, you misunderstand.

I stated in a previous post about copyright of media from patch creators where extracting data from an .nsmp file would breach copyright.

the main concern of the software I am discussing is purely as a host based editor / upgrading the scalability of NSM, etc so that it provides the functions needed. not a tool to extract nsmp data / reverse engineer it. What I had actually discussed in the way of CONVERSION is to convert between nord families, say electro 6 to stage and vise versa, not to deliberately tamper with the .nsmp3 file structure or content, purely to allow nord users to migrate data between machines without 1-1 hard copy manually.

lew

Lew,
I didn't read this thoroughly enough:

LewTheKeysGuy wrote:The editor would work within NSM so that it has access to sample, synth, piano and program data, so that you can edit without being at the stage or other instrument. Also an offline mode so that if producing sound data with NSE3, the editor can work in conjunction with NSE3 so that program data can be created ready to migrate in to the instrument at a later time, this would allow faster project creation.

So by offline editing, you don't mean to be able to process the Nord sound offline and listen to it - I mean outside the gear? This would be a totally different product as suggested in No. 2, right?

The necessity to get to know what the displays, dials and knobs are saying, even if you don't see them, is absolutely comprehensible to me. Probably mainly while preparing sounds. But how do you deal on stage? Do the five live program buttons mostly fit for you?

To me, it's an advantage having all those endless controllers which are automatically set by programs. And my Native Instruments Kontrol S61 would be even directly set by a PC - I just haven't used that feature yet, just use it as a MIDI controller.

FZiegler wrote:Lew,
I didn't read this thoroughly enough:

LewTheKeysGuy wrote:The editor would work within NSM so that it has access to sample, synth, piano and program data, so that you can edit without being at the stage or other instrument. Also an offline mode so that if producing sound data with NSE3, the editor can work in conjunction with NSE3 so that program data can be created ready to migrate in to the instrument at a later time, this would allow faster project creation.

So by offline editing, you don't mean to be able to process the Nord sound offline and listen to it - I mean outside the gear? This would be a totally different product as suggested in No. 2, right?

The necessity to get to know what the displays, dials and knobs are saying, even if you don't see them, is absolutely comprehensible to me. Probably mainly while preparing sounds. But how do you deal on stage? Do the five live program buttons mostly fit for you?

To me, it's an advantage having all those endless controllers which are automatically set by programs. And my Native Instruments Kontrol S61 would be even directly set by a PC - I just haven't used that feature yet, just use it as a MIDI controller.

So you get an understanding and don't take it the wrong way please. I'd ask you to stand or sit at your stage 3. now blindfold yourself, automatically you've isolated sight from your sensory system. so you'll start feeling your way around the stage. Now you will get an idea of what I do. I have to feel the layout of equipment, once I'm comfortable with it it's not much of a problem. The issue I have is when doing fine control for sound design, copying settings I use between programs so they're identical is a pain in the neck. To have the software I've discussed to be available would mean that I'd be able to edit certain parameters much quicker. all dials transmit midi data for a start as they are morphable. so if the stage was connected to the software, with the right coding, the software would see settings per program including adjusted parameters there and then, with VoiceOver navigating the app's window / windows and objects, that then means I'd have spoken feedback.

In a live situation, the stage is fine because I've programmed and developed the programs I use on the stage, so they're ready to use, any live adjustments for performance are doable and I don't really need to know those values unless it's a repeatable requirement, then I'd need that information in conjunction with the editor so I can fine dial in and include it as a morph parameter

With reference to the offline editor, yes, it's not a necessary tool, but would help if you're a sound programmer building templates where then certain data is made available with the instrument online. One tool that should be in this software is the ability to go through your stored nsmp / nsmp3 files on your host's storage and preview the sounds before uploading to the instrument, saves time adding programs you don't want, there's only one way to preview nsmp / nsmp3 files, that's to load to the instrument directly which is not exactly ideal. If you're a sound programmer / developer, you want to be able to get a basic idea of the patch being built and reference to the nsmp as source before you go full on and fully design that particular program.

I don't mind sitting at my stage 3 and grand all day programming, but what I do mind is having to struggle getting certain data to find it isn't accessible in the way I need it.

lew

Anybody there to assamble a talking raspi pi which would on the fly read aloud the MIDI data sent by the Nords? If it was feasible, you could append such a MIDI data reader to any device. Maybe with different translation tables converting the CC number into the name of the changed value.

I'm just spinning around and should probably put a cork in it as you may have thought about all that for a long time.

FZiegler wrote:Anybody there to assamble a talking raspi pi which would on the fly read aloud the MIDI data sent by the Nords? If it was feasible, you could append such a MIDI data reader to any device. Maybe with different translation tables converting the CC number into the name of the changed value.

I'm just spinning around and should probably put a cork in it as you may have thought about all that for a long time.

lol, good idea but not viable, anyway, this solution isn't just for me, it's for plenty of others who would benefit from an on-screen editor system, etc. I'm starting to think this is getting lost in translation lol.

lew