Stage 3: Stereo to Mono summing question.

[stopmakingsense]

Do you see any pitfalls to the following scenario?

Nord Stage 3, out to two KT80 keyboard amps for stereo monitoring enjoyment.
The KT80 Amps have XLR outs. I've got an XLR Y cable to merge the Left KT80 and the Right KT80's outputs to one Mono XLR for the PA guy

I haven't worked with a Sound guy with this setup yet, so your opinions are appreciated.

I have been reading the forum on similar topics, and tried all kinds of configurations to make the pianos sound right in Mono.

My best results have been:
*Mono setting off
*L and R from the stage to one Mono KT80 AMP.

This sounded better then just sending just the right channel to one KT80. Way better then sending just the left channel. Tried it with and without dummy plugs in the unused sides, and I'm not preferring the MONO setting on the Nord stage 3.

Is this summing from 2 amps to one XLR out a good solution?

Thank you in advanced for your feedback.

stopmakingsense

[cphollis]

I would not use a Y cable for summing to mono. I would expect all sorts of weird phase cancellation issues. I would either let the sound person handle the summing stereo outputs with his/her mixer, or bring a small mixer with a mono monitor out. Some amps and speakers can mix dual stereo inputs, but it doesn't sound great.

The best way to get your boards sounding great in mono is to use the "mono" button. Everything else seems to be a compromise based on my experience.

[kbmatson]

Audio 101 ... do not EVER "mix" channels together with a Y cable. Y cables are meant to split signals, not merge them.

[keysmcgee]

Why not just give the sound guy two XLR outs and let him deal with it from there? He can then bring your Left and Right feeds into his mixer and run keyboards in mono or stereo as he sees fit. As stated above, you should never "Y" 2 outputs together, as this can cause problems for the output electronics that are being paralleled together by the Y cable (unless there are inline summing resistors built into the Y cable, but this would be something that you would need to make).

[stopmakingsense]

Hi,

Please buy a Palmer Pan 05 and you are fine

Greets

Eumel

[stopmakingsense]

My best results have been:
*Mono setting off
*L and R from the stage to one Mono KT80 AMP.

So you are essentially summing L+R.
According to Clavia the Mono mode is a weighted mix across the keyboard that minimises the phase cancellation that occurs when you sum up the outputs. So in theory Mono mode should sound better than the sum.
To me, it sounds even better to use only one output, but that has an element of subjectivity as well (I have an NS2, not sure it makes any difference).

[stopmakingsense]

Lots of good input above.



I'll have to look into the palmer pan 5.

I've had some luck with just the right side output, with Digipiano1 on bank A and an alternative Studio Grand 2 on B. Had to tweek the hell out of the studio grand to make it sound good.

I do want to mention this morning's mono sound quality experiment... I did the XLR Y cable thing summed out to a little mono mixer(don't like the mixer enough to gig with it) and into headphones to check for sound quality/ phasing etc. Strangely, everything sounded surprisingly good. No significant phasing. The mono setting on the Stage, only seemed to cut some high end eq and zero out pan effects.
At least with the mono setting off, I would get a tremelo out of the pan setting.

At some point I'm going to have to do a real world experiment on a big PA, to see if the Nord and the KT80 outputs are the exception to Audio 101 and the general consensus. The Right output only thing is a strong contender.

I'll let you know if flames come out of the Y connector or the soundman's head, or if it sounds awful in real world applications.

[Mr_-G-]

I does not make sense risk damaging a not-so-cheap instrument with a Y cable. Please take a look at this: https://www.rane.com/note109.html
Instead, I would make a proper summing box with a few resistors to make sure that the levels are dealt with properly.

[stopmakingsense]

Alright Mr_-G-.

The Rane article is a good one. I don't understand all of it, but it does drive the point home. I'm now sold on the no Y cable argument.

I'm going to organize one or two Mono optimized 5 Button Songs.

I'll send the sound guy my right channel if he's Mono only, and call it good. Less cables, less worries , less hassles. But I'm still bringing the two Amps so I can hear stereo, even if no one else can.

stopmakingsense

[Schorsch]

Hi,

Please buy a Palmer Pan 05 and you are fine

Greets

Eumel

Or buy a Palmer PMBL which is for line signal level, the Palmer PAN 05 is for microphones. PMBL is also dual channel