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Re: NP4 knocking and slow response key bed

Postby cphollis » 02 Mar 2019, 22:22

I think piano actions are a matter of personal preference. I, for one, was not a fan of the CP4 (or previous CP5) actions. They were reasonable (to be sure), just not my cup of team.

I go back and forth between a very high end acoustic piano action and my NP4. If learn to play something well on the acoustic grand, that immediately will translate to the NP4. There are of course small differences between the two actions, but not enough to bother me in any meaningful way.

I also appreciate that the NP4 action is on the lighter side, which matters during a 3-4 hour piano-centric gig.

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Re: NP4 knocking and slow response key bed


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Re: NP4 knocking and slow response key bed

Postby cliffjpiano » 04 Mar 2019, 19:44

Thanks for the responses! So, here's the update - Proaudio Star is sending me a replacement NP4 unit, which I hope will not have any issues; I'll keep you guys posted. My old keyboard was a NP2, which didn't have this knocking or sticky key problem; too bad Nord got sloppy. Prior to owning the NP2, I owned a Yamaha CP5 which IMO had the best action and keyboard touch, but the piano sounds were lacking: too thin for my liking. If the Nord pianos had the action of a Yamaha CP4/CP5, that would be the perfect stage piano! Nord, I hope you're listening!
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Re: NP4 knocking and slow response key bed

Postby cliffjpiano » 18 Mar 2019, 20:16

UPDATE: I finally got my NP4 replacement and can now definitely confirm that I had a bad unit. Keybed is much better and the sound too apparently. HOWEVER, I did notice from my first unit and the replacement unit that there would be a sudden and alarming increase in tone during continuous play. Perhaps an issue with the polyphony? What to do... I love the Nord piano sound library but not the unit. :facepalm:
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Re: NP4 knocking and slow response key bed

Postby baekgaard » 19 Mar 2019, 00:04

Hm... what do you mean by a "sudden and alarming increase in tone during continuous play"? I guess you don't mean that if you hold down a key for a long time, it starts becoming louder and sounding weird?
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Re: NP4 knocking and slow response key bed

Postby cliffjpiano » 20 Mar 2019, 01:52

Hey @beakgaard! This issue occurs when the same note is repeatedly hit at a fast speed. I think it has something to do with the triple sensors. Someone else on this forum had a similar volume velocity issue: nord-piano-forum-f10/piano-3-repeating-issue-t13562.html
Last edited by cliffjpiano on 20 Mar 2019, 02:17, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: NP4 knocking and slow response key bed

Postby cliffjpiano » 20 Mar 2019, 02:17

Watch and listen for the middle C# at 0:21. This scares the crap out of me when this happens on occasion. If I was performing live, I would have that "I swear it wasn't me" look on my face :o

Watch on youtube.com
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Re: NP4 knocking and slow response key bed

Postby cliffjpiano » 20 Mar 2019, 02:20

Below are clips of the original issues I had with the unit.

Sticky Key Video:
Video_1 (1).MOV
Knocking key
(1.19 MiB) Downloaded 31 times


Knocking Key Video:
Video_1.MOV
Sticky key
(1.19 MiB) Downloaded 24 times
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Re: NP4 knocking and slow response key bed

Postby SteveNordP3 » 20 Mar 2019, 02:41

cliffjpiano wrote:Watch and listen for the middle C# at 0:21. This scares the crap out of me when this happens on occasion. If I was performing live, I would have that "I swear it wasn't me" look on my face :o

Watch on youtube.com


First - you play very well.

Second - I could be wrong, but watch the video again and the fraction of a second before you get the loud C# your finger pre-strikes the key - there must be a way it’s reading that action differently than you intend - again I could be completely wrong but have a look and see if you see what I do and try to replicate it for a similar result....
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Re: NP4 knocking and slow response key bed

Postby baekgaard » 20 Mar 2019, 09:12

Each key has 3 sensors on the NP4, and the resulting velocity (how strong the key sounds) is determined by the timing between triggering the sensors. As far as I know, in normal playing you trigger the topmost sensor (switch) first, then then middle and finally the lowest one. The velocity is calculated based on the timing between triggering the sensors. The key keeps sustaining until the top sensor is released. This means you can partially release the key (i.e. the middle and lowest sensor but not the top one) and re-trigger the key, calculating a new velocity for the 2nd keypress, while it still sounds with the firstly triggered sound.

In case one of the sensors are dirty, strange things can happen. On 2-sensor keys (like the NS3 etc), if the top key is (sometimes) not working as it should, the lowest sensor is triggered and there is no way to calculate the velocity, and in most cases the key will then sound at full velocity, as far as I know.

Maybe one of the sensors fail intermittently or is just a bit "slow" on your C#.

If SteveNordP3 is right, it could for instance be that your middle sensor isn't working as it should. In "normal" use, the velocity can still be calculated based on the top and bottom sensors. If you partly keep the key down, so that the top sensor isn't released, then you would likely see something like you do in the example. There may be other options where it could fail like it apparently does.

You could try to play the key, release it almost (but not fully) so that it still keeps sounding, and press it again to trigger the two lowest sensors. If you do this gently, you should hear a re-trigger at low velocity. If you hear a high velocity sound instead, maybe the middle sensor is faulty?

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Re: NP4 knocking and slow response key bed

Postby cliffjpiano » 20 Mar 2019, 23:06

Hello @SteveNordP3 and Beakgaard - Both of your assumptions align with mine. I believe there is an issue with the middle sensor. So, I did try to keep the key half-way down so that the top sensor isn't released and hit the key again and I was able to duplicate the sudden spike in volume issue.

This is a brand new unit (replacement of the original one I returned last week), so I'm disappointing that there is this dirty/faulty sensor issue. ALSO!!!, last night on this replacement unit, the same knocking problem with key F2, the same exact key from the original unit I returned, started to create the knocking sound as if the hammer or equivalent is hitting against the sidewall.

Man, I'm so annoyed. I'm an experienced player and owned many keyboards, including the NP2, which I had no keybed problems with. Either I have the worst luck or Nord is not paying attention to quality control. The Fatar keybed must go!!!

CONCLUSION - I'm returning the NP4.

I'm doing some research now for a new stage piano with top notch keybed action in mind. I love the Yamaha CP4 wooden keybed, but dislike the thin piano sounds. So, I'm looking at the Korg Grandstage or Korg D1 which both have the critically acclaimed RH3 (real hammer) action with okay sounds. At home playing, I can patch it through Ivory Synthogy. I don't mean to derail this thread, but if anyone has any suggestions on a stage piano with most importantly good action and secondarily piano sounds, please let me know.

Thanks,
Cliff.
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