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Midi Chain Question / NS3 - NE3 - Roland Integra

Postby pianogroove » 04 Dec 2018, 21:10

Hi everyone,
I plan to expand my rig with a extern expander like roland integra.
I want to play the roland integra from the NS3 and the NE 3.
The programm-changes are currently sent by an ipad to NS3, NS3 sends programm change (saved in every programm) to NE 3 (and then to roland). (I also can work without ipad when I'm in song-mode.)

A midi-chain with the roland at the end would be no problem and should work, but the problem is that the NE3 only sends and receives one one midi channel and has no midi thru.
Do I need a midi merger or a midi thru box to solve this? Which one would you recommend and how do I connect the devices?
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Midi Chain Question / NS3 - NE3 - Roland Integra


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Re: Midi Chain Question / NS3 - NE3 - Roland Integra

Postby harmonizer » 05 Dec 2018, 03:51

I have used a Nord Electro 3 in combination with a Roland XV-5050 synth module for several years. I did not invoke Roland program changes via midi, but simply by turning the dial on the front of the XV-5050. You should be able to do the same with the Integra. I always set up XV-5050 "performances" to define what sounds, combinations of sounds, and splits (keyboard ranges) I wanted to be in use. An Integra "Studio Set" is the equivalent of an XV-5050 "performance" - you can have 16 different parts, each having its own separate key range (and transposition).

My understanding is that the Integra allows up to 64 user-defined "Studio Sets". Some people find that is not enough. On my XV-5050, I had about 30 defined that I actually used. Your mileage may vary.

The biggest problem when doing this on the Electro 3 is that it has no real split capability, so for the most part you cannot get the Electro to create sounds from part of its keyboard, while the rest is silent. So for example, if you want to use an EP sound from part of the Electro 3, but have the rest of its keyboard not create any noises on the Nord, so that this range would only be used to cause the Integra to create noises, there is no way to do this. The only split you can do on the Electro is organ/organ - you can have different organ settings on the two sides of the split. You can use drawbar settings to silence the organ sounds for one side of that split, and still get good organ sounds from the Electro from the other side. But otherwise there is no way to have the Electro 3 create sounds from only part of its keyboard.

The Stage3 has much better split capability, so you would easily be able to silence part of the Stage3 if using the rest of its keyboard to drive sounds from the Integra.
Last edited by harmonizer on 05 Dec 2018, 03:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Midi Chain Question / NS3 - NE3 - Roland Integra

Postby Klangwerk » 05 Dec 2018, 17:41

Servus Pianogroove,

I play with 2 Stages und 3 Expanders without midirouting by ipad or miditemp.
I use the NS3 as master because of the setlist options. NS3 Midi out ------ Midi In Roland Fantom XR --- Midi THRU -----------Midi In NS2-----Midi out---------Midi In--Roland XV-3080-- Midi THRU---------Midi In Roland D-05.
Each Expander got a own Midi-Channel and I set the Midi MSN/MSB, CC... in the NS3 and NS2 via Extern-Section.
So, it is very comfortable because the hole setup ist set and can be changed by just pressing one song button of my NS3.
I can do layers, splits and so on.

The easier way for you would be: NS3 Midi out------- Midi In Roland Integra 7--- Midi Thru-----------Midi In--- NE
Set the Midi Channels, CC ... and use Extern-Section.
Your Ipad is not needed anymore.

VG Helmuth :thumbup:
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Re: Midi Chain Question / NS3 - NE3 - Roland Integra

Postby pianogroove » 05 Dec 2018, 19:36

Servus Helmuth,
thank you for the infos :thanks: - my problem is that i wanted to play the roland from both bords NS3 and NE 3. This is not possible because the NE has only one midichannel (send and receive the same).
The question was if I could this solve with a midimerger or a midi-thru-box....

But I think the easiest way is to make a chain as you wrote and play the roland only via NS3. :thumbup:
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Re: Midi Chain Question / NS3 - NE3 - Roland Integra

Postby cgrafx » 05 Dec 2018, 19:40

I think the bigger challenge with the Integra is going to be mapping the alternate sound controls. In order to get access to the alternate voicings you have to have a control button(s) to select the alternate sound (plucked strings, harmonics, horn fall-offs). You may be able to do that with aftertouch, but I don't think you can map that without an external MIDI control box.

Any of these will work to connect to the NS3.

https://www.bome.com/products/bomebox
https://www.iconnectivity.com/products/ ... tmidi2plus
http://midisolutions.com/prodepp.htm

If you want to connect both keyboards there are larger units with more ports.
https://www.iconnectivity.com/products/ ... tmidi4plus
Last edited by cgrafx on 05 Dec 2018, 19:45, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Midi Chain Question / NS3 - NE3 - Roland Integra

Postby Marvintheandroid » 06 Dec 2018, 22:49

I use the iMidiConnectivity 4 port interface to connect to my 3 keyboards an one expander.

I play the rig live using an iPad connected to the MIDI Interface and then use the iMIDIPatchBay app to send Program changes to my keyboards for every song in my repertoire. The app controls volumes, attack, Reverb and many other parameters. It’s well worth a look at for live work but you do need to drive you keyboard rig using the iPad as a permanent fixture.
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Re: Midi Chain Question / NS3 - NE3 - Roland Integra

Postby pianogroove » 07 Dec 2018, 16:28

OK, I'll have a closer look at the imidipatchbay and iMidiConnectivity 4 port interface - thanks :thanx: marvin. I think it could solve my" problem". Looks like a "miditemp for ipad" :D
One question: did you have to set up anything in the Imidiconnectivity or is this all set up in the imidipatchbay-app?

I'm a little embarrassed to be dependent on a ipad-software in my ring. If the ipad "dies" for some reason in a live situation you'll have a problem if the hole thing (volume, splits cc etc) is setup in this software.
I did have that a few years ago - the connetor of the iphone was a little dirty and it didn't send out programm changes (in a live situation), but then connetion and loading function was still there. It took a time to realize that.
Last edited by pianogroove on 07 Dec 2018, 16:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Midi Chain Question / NS3 - NE3 - Roland Integra

Postby 23skidoo » 07 Dec 2018, 18:52

Just FYI there are several MIDI interfaces out there (the MOTU Micro Express is a good example) that offer standalone routing and message filtering capabilities. You might want to consider one of those instead, if you don't trust your iPad. Those are nearly bulletproof solutions that run on special firmware designed to reduce if not eliminate any MIDI timing issues too - the iPad needs to process each MIDI command separately and is not optimized for that, so there will be some jitter and other artifacts. I have this problem with all USB-based MIDI interfaces if it's the computer doing the note routing/filtering since USB MIDI has a ~1ms latency per port (related to the polling time of bulk USB interfaces which MIDI is). The more USB midi devices you're trying to route among, the greater the likelihood of noticeable timing issues. For just a few devices it's not so bad, but if you have something sending clock to something else that sends notes to something else that loops them through to a final destination, with any little bit of latency or iPad processing lag you can start to notice the timing shifts. This doesn't really happen in hardware MIDI routing since all of that is done nearly instantaneously by custom hardware that treats every single port as a top priority.
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