Pairings With Nords?

[IHaveQuestions]

Hello, everyone.

I've been playing keys for years, but was never much into anything but playing. When I purchased a keyboard, I'd go into the store, play the main presets I liked, and purchase the one I liked the most. The only brands that existed - in my narrow worldview - were Korg, Roland, and Yamaha.

I have started doing some research, but I said all of that to say, pardon any ignorance, as I'm fairly new to being able to discuss the technical aspects of keyboards.

So, I know for a fact I do want a Nord, but am unsure if I want the Nord as a top board or bottom board. I just know I don't want any MAJOR overlap.

I do no studio work. I'm purely a live performer. I played everything from gospel music and neo-soul to covers of pop songs dating back to the 70s.

I've considered purchasing the V Synth GT to act as my top board - bass and synth sounds - and the Nord Stage 3 as my bottom board for piano, strings, and organ. In your opinion, how much overlap is there in these boards?

I've also considered the Nord Stage 3 compact as my top, and a Jupiter 80 as the bottom(I know where I can get a used one in GREAT condition). How much overlap do we have there?

What would you all suggest, if those pairings have too much overlap?

[smullins]

I have a Stage 3 88 paired with a Kronos 61, MIDI'd back to back so I can play sounds of both from either keyboard. I like the fact that the Stage 3 is very easy to use and I used it primarily for the bread and butter sounds (piano, organ, epiano). The Kronos 61 is almost the opposite; very deep and complex (although easier to navigate than say Yamaha Motif family). However, the tradeoff is that it a) has much better non-keyboard ROMpler sounds than the Stage can provide via it's single layer b) is much more flexible in terms of splits, layers, etc. c) has a terrific Set List feature for live use and d) with 9 sound engines, there are almost no sounds it doesn't cover decently. I play primarily in a duo and for some of our covers, I have 6-10 splits, so that is simply something I couldn't do with the Stage alone.

In short, I find the combination of the two to be very effective for what I do. I wouldn't want to learn two keyboards as complex as the Kronos. But if I had two keyboards with the limitations of the Stage (limited splits, single-layer samples, etc) I would be frustrated.

[IHaveQuestions]

I have a Stage 3 88 paired with a Kronos 61, MIDI'd back to back so I can play sounds of both from either keyboard. I like the fact that the Stage 3 is very easy to use and I used it primarily for the bread and butter sounds (piano, organ, epiano). The Kronos 61 is almost the opposite; very deep and complex (although easier to navigate than say Yamaha Motif family). However, the tradeoff is that it a) has much better non-keyboard ROMpler sounds than the Stage can provide via it's single layer b) is much more flexible in terms of splits, layers, etc. c) has a terrific Set List feature for live use and d) with 9 sound engines, there are almost no sounds it doesn't cover decently. I play primarily in a duo and for some of our covers, I have 6-10 splits, so that is simply something I couldn't do with the Stage alone.

In short, I find the combination of the two to be very effective for what I do. I wouldn't want to learn two keyboards as complex as the Kronos. But if I had two keyboards with the limitations of the Stage (limited splits, single-layer samples, etc) I would be frustrated.

Would you say the Stage 3 is the ultimate for bread and butter sounds?

Also, in your opinion, what would be the two most deep and complex boards out today?

[anotherscott]

Would you say the Stage 3 is the ultimate for bread and butter sounds?

I don't think it is the very best board for any b&b sounds (maybe piano). What it does is put a lot of very-good-if-not-the-best sounds into a compact, lightweight package that operates with a lot of immediacy. As for what I'd pair it with, right now I'd look at the new Yamaha MODX. Yamaha tends to be strongest where Nord is weakest... non-keyboard based acoustic instruments (strings, brass, winds, guitars, etc.). The aforementioned Kronos could also be a good choice, as well as Kurzweil. The V-Synth and Jupiter 80 you mentioned are both good instruments that will give you a lot that's very different from what's in the Nord (and are also very different from each other), though they both may still leave you with some quality gaps in some commonly needed sounds, where those other boards wouldn't. But you may find that those other acoustic sounds are "good enough" in the Nord, and may prefer some of the more unusual things some other kind of board could bring to the table.

[IHaveQuestions]

Would you say the Stage 3 is the ultimate for bread and butter sounds?

I don't think it is the very best board for any b&b sounds (maybe piano). What it does is put a lot of very-good-if-not-the-best sounds into a compact, lightweight package that operates with a lot of immediacy. As for what I'd pair it with, right now I'd look at the new Yamaha MODX. Yamaha tends to be strongest where Nord is weakest... non-keyboard based acoustic instruments (strings, brass, winds, guitars, etc.). The aforementioned Kronos could also be a good choice, as well as Kurzweil. The V-Synth and Jupiter 80 you mentioned are both good instruments that will give you a lot that's very different from what's in the Nord (and are also very different from each other), though they both may still leave you with some quality gaps in some commonly needed sounds, where those other boards wouldn't. But you may find that those other acoustic sounds are "good enough" in the Nord, and may prefer some of the more unusual things some other kind of board could bring to the table.

Well, I want the the very best of the best in bread and butter sounds and synth + bass sounds for a top board, and I have 'no budget'. What that means is, I know the bill won't come to 20k for two boards, no matter how high end, so I have no budget.

Is what you suggest the best there is?

[anotherscott]

Well, I want the the very best of the best in bread and butter sounds and synth + bass sounds for a top board... Is what you suggest the best there is?

To some extent, this will always be subjective. But I would also say it may not be possible to get the best of everything in only two boards. Are you willing to go to more, or do you want the best 2 board compromise? Can you prioritize which the most important sounds are for you? Do you like to manipulate sounds as you play, or is it fine to just call up presets and pretty much play them as is? Also, budget may not be an issue, but do you have a weight limit on how heavy a board can be?

[IHaveQuestions]

Well, I want the the very best of the best in bread and butter sounds and synth + bass sounds for a top board... Is what you suggest the best there is?

To some extent, this will always be subjective. But I would also say it may not be possible to get the best of everything in only two boards. Are you willing to go to more, or do you want the best 2 board compromise? Can you prioritize which the most important sounds are for you? Do you like to manipulate sounds as you play, or is it fine to just call up presets and pretty much play them as is? Also, budget may not be an issue, but do you have a weight limit on how heavy a board can be?

A part of me would prefer to not have to manipulate/edit offstage, but if that is what it takes to get what I want, then I am willing.

Weight?

i play live, on average, about 10 times a month. The Nord is on my list because it seems to have the best weight to sound quality ratio.

That being said, while I do not WISH to lug around heavy equipment, if there are options that are SIGNIFICANTLY better, then I can overlook the weight.

So, my top priority is quality of the sounds in a keyboard. I mean, if that means going the way of two deep and complex boards over 40lbs, then so be it.

I've come to realize, now, that that is ultimately what is most important to me.

[anotherscott]

Manipulating/editing offstage is usually a matter of adapting things to your taste. But there's also the question about your desire to manipulate/edit ON stage. Whether it's organ drawbars, EP effects parameters, filter and envelope synth settings, there are players who like to alter these things in the moment, and people who just call up a sound and play and don't alter much if anything during performance.

Yes, Nord has excellent weight to sound quality ratio. At what might be another extreme, some people may prefer the piano sound (and/or feel) of the Kawai MP11, but few are willing to gig with it because it weighs 70 lbs. But people have their cutoffs in different places.

As important as sounds are, I also consider keyboard feel, and operational ergonomics. But if you want the very best sound, would you consider incorporating a laptop into your rig?

Getting back to what I was saying about the NS3, it's a great combination of stuff in a single, light board. But as good as the organ is, Crumar Mojo 61 is probably better. I would prefer the Korg SV1 to the Nord for EPs. Nord's strings/brass/winds/etc. are surpassed by numerous boards (I'd probably take a Yamaha MODX). Synths vary so much in their sounds and capabilities, but I like analog, so to improve on the synth in the NS3, I might go for a Roland JD-XA (though what the heck, if there are no limits, you could look at a Sequential Prophet X or a Moog One). So yeah, you can pretty much better almost anythiing that's in the Nord... but not with some other single board, and maybe not even with two.

[smullins]

Would you say the Stage 3 is the ultimate for bread and butter sounds?

I don't think it is the very best board for any b&b sounds (maybe piano). What it does is put a lot of very-good-if-not-the-best sounds into a compact, lightweight package that operates with a lot of immediacy.

I think that’s a fair summary of it. I love the Stage for it’s overall work flow and the pianos and organs are very good. I’m not crazy about the EP samples and tend to use the Kronos modeled EP from Stage weighted keyboard.

As for what I'd pair it with, right now I'd look at the new Yamaha MODX. Yamaha tends to be strongest where Nord is weakest... non-keyboard based acoustic instruments (strings, brass, winds, guitars, etc.).

MODX sounds great and would be a good pairing if MIDI slave flexibility is not important. The Montage/MODX MIDI slave limitations have been well documented in other forums (Yamaha’s synth site and Keyboard Corner Forum) so I won’t belabor them here. Basically you can’t set the midi channel independently on each part in the performance. Here is one thread which discusses it:

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthread ... ly_arrived!

Thay may or may not be important for you. It’s a show stopper for me and why I jumped ship to Kronos from Yamaha (after owning several generations of Motif) when it became apparent they probably weren’t going to address this issue in the Montage. Same limitation on MODX.

[weremole]

While I agree the Montage/MODX midi implementation is rather disappointing, it's limitations can be easily overcome by modern midi routers/processors. I think these are becoming an essential tool for the more advanced midi setups. I hope the days are gone of countless midi boxes, tons of wires and manufacturers paralyzing midi implementations.