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nla1 midi question with second keyboard

Postby varignet » 23 Jun 2018, 15:58

I have the nla1 and an about to purchase a second 88 keyboard to place underneath.

I was wondering if it was possible ( and easy to achieve ) to play on both keyboards and have some of the synth engines driven from the ext. keyboard, some from the nla1.

specifically, can I play 1 or 2 engines from another keyboard via midi whilst playing the remaining 1-2 engines on the full length of the nla1 keyboard?

even better can I drive 2 of the 4 nla1 synth engines from a second keyboard via midi ( via split point) whilst playing the remaining 2 engines on the nla1 ( via split point )?

as you might have imagined i have no midi knowledge whatsoever :)

many thanks
happy Saturday
Luca
Last edited by varignet on 23 Jun 2018, 16:25, edited 1 time in total.
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nla1 midi question with second keyboard


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Re: nla1 midi question with second keyboard

Postby cambe » 23 Jun 2018, 16:41

Dear Luca,

As a fellow A1 owner and keyboard hoader I think I can address some of your concerns.

First of all, the A1 has a very good MIDI implementation (aside from the lack of total thru). Anyway, you can assign a midi channel specifically for each part of the A1. And choose which part to be played by the A1 keyboard by leaving the part chosen lighten up and the parts you want an external midi device to control lighten off.

It is possible to assign a midi channel to B and a midi channel to D. Leave both of the lighten off. Split the keyboard, and play parts A and C while parts B and D are played by external midi.

This is done by not addressing a global midi channel, but by assigning specific midi channels on the midi menu.

One thing to keep in mind is to purchase a 88 key that allows you to choose which midi channels to send information of the its respective keyboard.

Very easy to achieve.

Best Regards,
Cambé

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Re: nla1 midi question with second keyboard

Postby varignet » 23 Jun 2018, 22:06

great to hear, many thanks.

I'm planning to get a small Audio interface for the 2 keyboards plugged into a computer and speakers out from the audio interface.

how would i prevent sounds from the second keyboard i.e. junods88 from coming out when driving the nla1?

also would I be able to daisy chain the juno and nla1 to the audio interface and record midi+sounds from both keyboards individually if I wanted to? or is this one of the limitations you mentioned about the nla1 not working as pass thru?
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Re: nla1 midi question with second keyboard

Postby varignet » 28 Jun 2018, 11:01

I went through the nla1 manual in detail but not having midi experience I find planning for the setup a bit tricky. Would you mind sharing your thoughts?

I'll likely purchase a juno ds88 with midi in/out.
nla1 with midi in/out.
audio interface with midi in/out or alternatively juno which can act as a daw itself via usb.

I'd like to connect the setup so that:
-I can play the juno keys and drive some synth slots on the nla1
-record notes via midi coming from both the juno and the nla1
-playback both keyboards via midi from the audio interface/daw and record the audio back in the audio interface/daw.

Many thanks!
Luca
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Re: nla1 midi question with second keyboard

Postby varignet » 01 Jul 2018, 14:39

one more thing, would the mod wheel/ pitchbend come from the controller ?

how would that work if the external controller has a joystick and no separate modwheel?

please help :)
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Re: nla1 midi question with second keyboard

Postby Execbat » 02 Jul 2018, 04:13

varignet wrote:how would i prevent sounds from the second keyboard i.e. junods88 from coming out when driving the nla1?

Use the setting "local off" in the DS, or turn down volume.

varignet wrote:also would I be able to daisy chain the juno and nla1 to the audio interface and record midi+sounds from both keyboards individually if I wanted to?

Midi yes, set midi soft thru channel on the A1 to the appropriate # on which it recieves midi from the DS. Only this one incoming channel will be passed on to the midi out.
Note that the A1 only sends knob movement cc and note data on the global channel, not on the slot channels! So if you have slots on 1,2,3,4, global on 5, and Juno merged on 4, then only 5 (everything you turn and play on the A1) and 4 (what you play on the DS) will go to your DAW. So while jamming, you cannot record cc from knob movement from two different A1 slots on seperate midi tracks on your daw. Same with note data. See manual.

varignet wrote:I'll likely purchase a juno ds88 with midi in/out.
nla1 with midi in/out.
audio interface with midi in/out or alternatively juno which can act as a daw itself via usb.

I'd like to connect the setup so that:
1-I can play the juno keys and drive some synth slots on the nla1
2-record notes via midi coming from both the juno and the nla1
3-playback both keyboards via midi from the audio interface/daw and record the audio back in the audio interface/daw.


1 Works
2 Works with the limitations mentioned above
3 Works, but any note and automation data previously recorded via the global channel should better be sent via slot channels, else it will play whatever is lit on the A1
If you only use din midi you might need to patch cables differently, as you need the midi in port on the A1 for playback. Might work with a weird additional usb "ring", but wouldn't recommend the Juno involvement if you want to playback from the DAW.
Last edited by Execbat on 02 Jul 2018, 04:29, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: nla1 midi question with second keyboard

Postby varignet » 08 Jul 2018, 16:30

thanks, it's a lot to digest, will need to read it carefullya few more times. I'm especially confused about what global midi is ( sorry ! ).

also, generally speaking, would it be possible to drive slots from an ext keyboard and use the nla1 morph wheel on them? probably not...


thx happy Sunday
Last edited by varignet on 08 Jul 2018, 20:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: nla1 midi question with second keyboard

Postby Execbat » 09 Jul 2018, 23:02

The "global" midi channel is technically just one of the 16 midi channels you set it to.

The reason it is different to "slot" midi channels is:

If you route midi data via one or more midi channels, then "slot" midi channels play the four parts/slots (A,B,C,D) individually. No matter if the part is active (red LED "lit") or not. That is good, so that you can - for example - let a midi sequencer play patterns on slot A and D, while you yourselt play two "sounds", a split, on slot B and C on top of it using the NL's keyboard. (Only slots B and C are "lit" in this case). - Or if you use your other Roland keyboard to play one slot in addition to the NL.

The "global" midi channel treats all incoming data on that channel as if it were played with the NL's keyboard. People who have the NL module version without keyboard need it. Or if you dislike the NL's short keys and want to completely control it from another keyboard with more and better keys etc. Here it matters which slots you have active of course, because only these will sound. You can of course send midi data from a sequencer to the NL on the global channel, but usually you will use the slot channels obviously.

Now: The NL sends knob turns and note data (from playing the internal keyboard) only on the global channel. That is relevant when recording midi data in your DAW.
It RECIEVES on global AND slot channels, but SENDS on the global channel only.

Example: Let's assume slot channels are 1,2,3,4, and global channel is 5. Record a sound consisting of layer of slot A+B via the global channel 5 to your DAW. To playback what you just played (for example after correcting a few notes in the sequencer) you set the DAW track to send on channel 5 and push play again. You hear that again. If you now turned slot A and B off and C and D on, you would hear slots C and D sounding on playback, with their (different) sound. As you do not want that (because you want to play something else with C and D), you choose to send the data on both slot channels 1 and 2 instead of 5 (assign your track to midi channel 1 and create a duplicate for 2). If you now want to draw an automation curve for the filter frequency of only slot B, you do that on the second DAW track that sends on channel 2.
Now the twist: If you want to "record" that automation curve by turning a knob, that cc data will be send from the NL to the DAW on channel 5! Usually (or per default) most DAWs apply all midi data no matter on what channel to the currenly selected track, so you would just select track 2 and record the automation, but be aware that it gets sent on a different channel, as will note data. That may be even more relevant if dealing with other hardware. If I record to my small hardware sequencer, the sequencer wants to recieve the midi data on the same channel as it will be played back later, so I set the global channel to 1 when I want to record the part for slot A, 2 for B etc.

Hope that helps, I guess it's easier to understand if you practically deal with it. But people sometimes wonder why NL does not output on the slot channels. That's just the technical limitation to how it works, don't know why. It would trigger double midi notes with two active slots in default DAWs, but I guess that's not the reason.
Cheers.
Last edited by Execbat on 09 Jul 2018, 23:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: nla1 midi question with second keyboard

Postby Execbat » 09 Jul 2018, 23:16

varignet wrote:also, generally speaking, would it be possible to drive slots from an ext keyboard and use the nla1 morph wheel on them? probably not...


Yes, (at least on my NL4), the mod wheel also works for inactive slots
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Re: nla1 midi question with second keyboard

Postby cambe » 13 Jul 2018, 05:05

Yes, the mod wheel is global on the A1 also!

Execbat knows his midis! Haha
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