Velocity problems using external 88 keyboard with the NS3

[anotherscott]

I have the same problem...Today I received my NS3 Compact...great keyboard feel, I think it's different from my NE5D...much better feeling when I play piano or Rhodes

That's really interesting. I found that the NE5D felt much more playable for piano than did the NS2-73. I wondered if it was the aftertouch making the difference. Since I've been thinking about switching from the NE5D to the NS2-73, it's encouraging that you found the NS3-73 to feel better than the NE5D, regardless of the aftertouch.

when I connect to my master keyboard Dopfer PK88 with hammer keys ( Doepfer has fixed velocity curve), piano sounds like I all the time playin hard, like all the time velocity is 120-127...
What to do now? Waiting for next firmware or find other solution?

If you don't want to wait (for something that may or may not come), this might do the trick...

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodvel.htm

[maurich]

I have the same problem...Today I received my NS3 Compact...great keyboard feel, I think it's different from my NE5D...much better feeling when I play piano or Rhodes

That's really interesting. I found that the NE5D felt much more playable for piano than did the NS2-73. I wondered if it was the aftertouch making the difference. Since I've been thinking about switching from the NE5D to the NS2-73, it's encouraging that you found the NS3-73 to feel better than the NE5D, regardless of the aftertouch.

when I connect to my master keyboard Dopfer PK88 with hammer keys ( Doepfer has fixed velocity curve), piano sounds like I all the time playin hard, like all the time velocity is 120-127...
What to do now? Waiting for next firmware or find other solution?

If you don't want to wait (for something that may or may not come), this might do the trick...

http://www.midisolutions.com/prodvel.htm

Thank you for advice, anotherscott...
Tonight I tried Electro5D piano sound with my Doepfer PK88 master keyboard and piano sounds much better, velocity is so natural...so, I think, we can write to Clavia to fix it up in next update...if don't, I will buy this little piece of gear from midisolutions.com
After all day playin', I can say Nord Stage 3 is the best keyboard I ever have, very powerful instrument... I own Lead A1, but now, when we have A1 engine in NS3, and where we can tweak all samples+much more space for samples, it's fantastic!

[Quai34]

So, who has already used the Midi solution velocity converter with or without the Stage 3....The form/weigh factor of the Stage 3 compact controlled by the MP11 is my next solution for any gigs when I have less time to set up than my current full set up but with all the issues mentioned in this thread, I'm a little bit hesitant?

[friendben]

An easy way to add velocity control going into an NS3 is to pick up and old Anatek Pocket Curve. You can occasionally find them on eBay for around $50.

[anotherscott]

An easy way to add velocity control going into an NS3 is to pick up and old Anatek Pocket Curve. You can occasionally find them on eBay for around $50.

Yes... simpler than the MIDI Solutions box, but less flexible/customizable. But that's in fact what I use between my old Casio PX500L and the NE5D. That Casio doesn't look to generate velocities over 100, the pedal fixes that perfectly with its "DX7" curve.

[Ecaroh]

Hi all,

I am lucky (*) to now have both NS3 Compact and NS3 88. I tested them both playing exactly same piano sound with my Kawai CS-7 as an external MIDI controller. If there's any difference in their MIDI response, I could not feel or hear it. I must conclude that I personally would not be very happy with external piano controller. With my Kawai there are 5 velocity curves and none of them works 100% nicely. With "normal" curve you get forte when you play mezzo forte. But with "heavy+" curve you won't get those brightest high velocity tone without very big effort. I'd say that Nord piano sound is calibrated to work with their keyboards and of course that's reasonable. I don't say that you cannot match those velocity-responses with some other controller, but you'll probably need more than just few curves (like it is in my Kawai).

Few other things: I mentioned earlier that I felt some latency when I first tested this (some time ago and with earlier NS3 OS). For some reason, it did not bother me this time that much. I began to think that maybe Clavia did something in these last updates for diminishing MIDI latency? I don't know for sure. Then the Kawai's triple pedal: It did not work at all with NS3. I think last time (with earlier OS) it worked better, but I am not sure about that either.

Summa summarum: I repeat my conclusion that be careful when building setup with external piano controller with NS3. It can be difficult to make work 100% and feel good.


(*) "lucky" is little bit relative term here: I first bought NS3 HP76 which was far from what I expected. With my earlier NS2 76 it was all I needed: portable and yet great for piano playing. NS3 HP keyboard was a great disappointment and I returned it. But I needed an instrument to do my work and at that moment there was only NS3 Compact for replacement. But for other gigs I needed also more pianolike keyboard so I decided to order 88 as well. So whole thing became little more expensive than what was the first idea... Now I got 88 and basically situation is something which I have long dreamed: very portable Compact for many pop gigs etc. and 88 for more piano like ones and both with same great sounds. But downside: I have had problems (just read my other posts...) with both of them. Not very major ones but still. I am not sure if those are hardware or OS related problems and at the moment I'll wait and see how it goes...

[Fallboard]

I should mention I got a response from Nord about the velocity issue and they are aware of it, but right now focused on ironing our major bugs and getting the sample editor up for us. So long story short, they know about the complaints but are prioritizing bigger problems in the near term. I'd highly encourage anyone who encounters this problem to open a tech support ticket to Nord so they know just how important this is to us.

Worst comes to worse I might try that MIDI Solutions box, but it'd be a shame to have to buy a $130 accessory just to band-aid what amounts to a software oversight on a $3600 instrument.

[Murphy]

That's really good news, Fallboard and glad to hear it. I hope they can do that and also keep the amazing dynamic range and expressive control they have in the NS3C -- as it exists in the current SW action. The new key action beats the Electro 5 by a wide margin (when playing piano) and I don't really need an external controller for anything except for strict jazz or strict classical scenarios. I am very happy with what Nord has accomplished with just an SW keyboard. I've never played anything this expressive in a non-weighted key action -- ever. Thanks -- Nord! However, plugging in an external keyboard controller in the NSC3 is not near as good as what happens when you do that with an E5D. Thanks again, Fallboard.

[Quai34]

Do you think that Clavia might never fix The "compact" Curve" for external controller to push people buying their NS3/88 and not another 88 piano or controller? If they add an amazing curve to their compact to match the best Piano action of all in the Kawai MP11, people might buy MP11 and not their 88.....I don't know, it doesn't seem to be Clavia usual attitude but I know that some CIE, among the big ones, that could do that....

[Fallboard]

Do you think that Clavia might never fix The "compact" Curve" for external controller to push people buying their NS3/88 and not another 88 piano or controller? If they add an amazing curve to their compact to match the best Piano action of all in the Kawai MP11, people might buy MP11 and not their 88.....I don't know, it doesn't seem to be Clavia usual attitude but I know that some CIE, among the big ones, that could do that....

I don't think this is intentional. As mentioned in the previous post I think we have our answer. Did they deliberately cripple velocity curves to steer people toward a flagship product? Not a chance. For starters, the Electro 5D61, which I also upgraded from, has a much better velocity input for piano. They could have tried to steer people toward the Electro HP but that's obviously not the case. Secondly, I think Clavia is smart enough to know that people choose the Compact or 5D61 not because they're too cheap to buy the 88, but because they want something portable or with waterfall action. And as you've observed, it really just doesn't jibe with how Clavia has treated their customers so far.

But the real clue was in how much NICER it feels to play the NS3C with the SW action in the Piano Section. I think they adjusted their piano input curves from the internal keyboard and didn't bother to do a lot of testing to calibrate it differently for MIDI input or add a user option.

I do hope Clavia addresses this issue but there is the possibility it may never get on the ever-growing list of fixits I'm sure the team in Stockholm is scrambling to iron out. That's why opening tickets is so important.