Nord User Forum

This thread has a high enough density of last-worders to provide coffee break entertainment for days yet.

@emelenjr - You see, that's the point. This forum does not exist to validate your feelings and cater to your demands for unconditional agreement and approval. For new members of an established community, it would be helpful to observe and understand what's socially appropriate and participate in kind. The people you are disparaging have helped many people over the years make the most of their Nords, and I would feel confident that even after your outbursts, they would still gladly help you if you had an issue you were trying to resolve.

Also, a healthy dose of respect for the owners and moderators is warranted. They have volunteered their time and money to create a place where musicians from all over the world come together to talk about their music and equipment. Seriously, how cool is that? Again, this is a place for enthusiasts who try to get the most out of their equipment, don't expect everything to be perfect, but see the positives far outweighing any negatives, real or imagined.

If I misunderstood your purpose in your 19 posts on this subject, please do share what you were expecting to happen.

What I was expecting was more help and zero accusations. And much less speculation about what people *just know* Clavia will of course fix. Here’s what would have been helpful to read:

“Hi. I work for Clavia. We’re aware of the issue and working on it.”

“Hi. Thanks for confirming this is the case with Catalina. This will affect me too if they keep releasing 32-bit software.”

“Hi. I ran into the same issue. Here’s a workaround that doesn’t involve downgrading.”

In short, welcome people here instead of attacking them and accusing THEM of trolling.

emelenjr wrote:What I was expecting was more help and zero accusations. And much less speculation about what people *just know* Clavia will of course fix. Here’s what would have been helpful to read:

“Hi. I work for Clavia. We’re aware of the issue and working on it.”

“Hi. Thanks for confirming this is the case with Catalina. This will affect me too if they keep releasing 32-bit software.”

“Hi. I ran into the same issue. Here’s a workaround that doesn’t involve downgrading.”

In short, welcome people here instead of attacking them and accusing THEM of trolling.

1. Clavia does not officially participate here. So that expectation is unrealistic.

2. Already done. Including by me.

3. There is likely no workaround other than running Bootcamp or something like Parallels, which only a Mac beta tester would know (and it seems you're the only one here that's a beta tester). Another unrealistic expectation.

4. While I'm not saying you were trolling, a number of your posts have been indistinguishable from that of a troll. There's a nice way to say things and a not-so-nice way to say things. Asserting that Clavia is malevolent or incompetent doesn't put you in the nice camp. It's unrealistic to expect niceness from everyone if you choose to enter a discussion in an not-so-nice way. It takes a socially adept person to anticipate how their words and actions will be perceived by others, but maybe it's not your strength (it's something I'm still learning myself). That's ok, just try to learn from it.

Finally, you have the opportunity to contribute a lot and you are welcome here. It's very cool that you're part of the Mac beta and the Clavia beta and I would expect that you will provide feedback that can make the product better, whether immediately or in the future. I'm sure all of us with Macs look forward to hearing how it goes.

Thanks for letting everyone know that the current version of the Sound Manager will not work on the Catalina Beta.

Now whether the next update of the Sound Manager will work on Catalina (the actual, officially released OS) is not known, but it's probably a safe bet considering that (1) Clavia and everyone else in the software business has known this was coming for years, and (2) Clavia knows that so many music makers and professionals use Macs.

And that's why people are considering this to be a non-issue. I don't know any professional (myself included) who would put a beta OS on one of their machines that they rely on for work. Quite the opposite in fact. I have been waiting anywhere from six months to a year to upgrade to the latest Mac OS for the last few versions. Hell, one colleague of mine only a couple of years ago finally ditched his PowerBook that he was keeping with OS 9 on it because of a piece of software that only worked with that OS that he used for work.

Okay, here’s a helpful summary:

Your problem is not an issue with Clavia software. It is caused by running pre-release versions of the upcoming OS.

The solution to your problem is to not run pre-release OS versions. If you do that, then you will probably always have a working version of Nord Sound Manager available, for many years to come.

The end.

CountFosco wrote:Still, does give you something to read of a morning over coffee. Happy Friday all!

but what about those of us who don't drink coffee...?



PS -- I had spaghetti three times this week

pablomastodon wrote:but what about those of us who don't drink coffee...?

.... enjoy a regular English tea with milk, that’s what I’m doing every morning while reading through the threads

I appreciate your replies, all. Thanks for calling out my tone where it deserved calling out.

I regret that the conversation generally went off the rails, One thing I could have done to prevent that would have been to explain my argument a little more carefully. Just to clarify a few things:

1. I don't have the luxury of having a dedicated laptop for my music rig. I've needed to keep this laptop current for many reasons. I was well aware of the 32-bit limitations of the Nord apps before I upgraded, but decided the tradeoff was worth it. I fully understand why others may resist upgrading, but I weighed my options and decided to join the beta anyway.

2. I do not and never have believed that Clavia should provide support for an unreleased OS. But the issue I'm experiencing where the Nord apps won't run on my Mac is not even due to me running a beta release. It's due to the OS's 64-bit app requirement. Let me explain my reasoning:

I have apps from many developers on my Mac right now. Other than the apps that Apple bundled with the OS update that got updated by default, I have not needed to manually install any updated third-party apps in order for those apps to continue to work with this new OS. I imagine the reason for this is that those apps were already 64-bit apps to begin with, prior to upgrading to the beta OS.

The Nord apps on my Mac are the only ones out of more than 80 apps on my Mac that won't run in this new 64-bit only environment. Given that the 64-bit train left the station years ago, in terms of Mac app development, that's why I think my current issue is architecture-related and not OS related. Clavia may have had perfectly valid reasons for doubling down on 32-bit Mac apps when other developers started migrating to 64-bit apps years ago. But whatever Clavia's reason for their doubling down, it's the apps' 32-bit limitation that prevents those apps from working on my Mac today. It has nothing to do with those apps not being "updated for Catalina" or the fact that Catalina hasn't been officially released yet. I'm certain of this because the 64-bit apps from other developers that were on my Mac prior to upgrading to Catalina continued to work after the upgrade.

To put it simply, the "beta OS" issue is a red herring because other apps I use haven't choked on this beta OS. It's the bits. I'd wager good money that if Clavia were to release 64-bit upgraded apps TODAY, for everyone running 10.14, 13, 12, 11, etc., those apps would also run on my Mac.

I read through this whole thread and felt like my posts could have used some clarification. We're getting closer to the Catalina release date. Apple just pushed out the 5th revision of its public beta. I'm looking forward to testing Clavia's 64-bit Nord apps as soon as I can.

emelenjr wrote: I have apps from many developers on my Mac right now. Other than the apps that Apple bundled with the OS update that got updated by default, I have not needed to manually install any updated third-party apps in order for those apps to continue to work with this new OS. I imagine the reason for this is that those apps were already 64-bit apps to begin with, prior to upgrading to the beta OS.

The Nord apps on my Mac are the only ones out of more than 80 apps on my Mac that won't run in this new 64-bit only environment. Given that the 64-bit train left the station years ago, in terms of Mac app development, that's why I think my current issue is architecture-related and not OS related. Clavia may have had perfectly valid reasons for doubling down on 32-bit Mac apps when other developers started migrating to 64-bit apps years ago. But whatever Clavia's reason for their doubling down, it's the apps' 32-bit limitation that prevents those apps from working on my Mac today. It has nothing to do with those apps not being "updated for Catalina" or the fact that Catalina hasn't been officially released yet. I'm certain of this because the 64-bit apps from other developers that were on my Mac prior to upgrading to Catalina continued to work after the upgrade.

Well you are probably in a lucky position then, I have quite a few apps instead which trigger the "32 bits app warning" on my Mac with Mojave (but they all run fine, including NSM), last not least the drivers of my MOTU Ultralite, so I would say that it is not only Clavia/Nord who will have to speed up with updates; otoh this also tells me that this time I will have to think twice before upgrading Mac OS (while in the past I used to do it after one or two months from the official release)