New - Royal Grand 3D Piano

[Gambold]

>Gambold, can I ask your thoughts on the Steinways from the Library.<

There is an embarrassment of riches with the pianos, and it's not always a good thing, since you can spend way too much time obsessing over which one is better. Unlike a lot of people here, I can't claim to hear all the minute differences between each one. In a live setting with an amplified group, most of those "character" differences fast become moot, except for a few notable exceptions like the Bright Grand, which remains the go-to, in my opinion, for cutting through the murk of a pop-rock combo. Jazz players and acoustic groups would likely want something like the Italian or the Lady D. The Bosie seems best attuned for thundering classical, especially in the low registers.

The rest of the Grands are older, smaller samples or misfires like the Velvet and the 3D. The Silver is a bright piano but doesn't cut like the Bright, in my experience. Yamaha does know what they are doing. There does seem to be a loyal following for the Studio Grand 2 - I don't know why, since I've played it and don't see the exceptionalism, but it's mentioned a lot, esp by the old-timers.

As for the Uprights - again, a plethora of choices that can vex the compulsives in the group (like me). I never use them, and don't see why anyone would. In a live environment you want the best samples possible and those are XL or L samples of the grands I just listed - why close yourself down sonically with a simulated upright? Oh you can have fun with one at home, I guess -- but I've found that despite loading one or two on my E4 because I thought I should, I never play them. If you must, the Amber is the one, and if space is a premium, the Black or the Blue. There's a lot of gimmick in this group, like the Bambino, Honky-Tonk, and Saloon.

As for file size, I'll be the contrarian and say that S and M are a waste of time - you paid for this technology, so you want to use it. I know the argument that "in a band no-one hears your resonance, etc" but half the time you might be playing a solo, or with low accompaniment - or at home by yourself. It matters, if it didn't they wouldn't bother making them, so load the large samples. You use the whole keyboard and want the resonance everywhere, and hell, you'll take the full mapping if you can stuff an XL on.

[Gambold]

It should also be pointed out that if you really want to play acoustic piano sounds live, you should play an acoustic piano. It's only been a few decades that we've had these acoustic emulators and I'm not convinced they are a good thing. Indeed, I often think they are a rather crummy thing. Back in the good old days, pop bands played Rhodes, Wurlis, Hammonds...or acoustic pianos. Jazz bands did the same.

Then along came the fake acoustic piano and here we are, dithering over two dozen different samples and spending a lot of money, usually without success, on trying to amplify them so they don't sound awful. We have players here who have invested in wholly separate PA systems for that purpose.

[danrv]

It should also be pointed out that if you really want to play acoustic piano sounds live, you should play an acoustic piano.

I suppose I’d have to say that I don’t want an acoustic piano sound but rather a ‘super’ piano that’s optimised and cleaned up for live use.

[danrv]

I am a mono amplification user. I still use the acoustic piano sound from my old Roland XV synth on most songs where acoustic is needed, in rock/covers band situations. Standalone it sounds like crap, but Roland knows how to make it sit in a rock/covers mix, and they knew it 12 years ago.

Agree about the old Roland piano sounds. I’ve been a mono amplification user for over 25 years and I only take 2 DXR10’s so that I can hear my pianos more clearly.
Everything else on my Stage 2 is fine through one DXR10.

[analogika]

It should also be pointed out that if you really want to play acoustic piano sounds live, you should play an acoustic piano.

I suppose I’d have to say that I don’t want an acoustic piano sound but rather a ‘super’ piano that’s optimised and cleaned up for live use.

Then you should play a Motif or a Kronos.

What you ask is the opposite of what Clavia has been doing since the original Nord Stage hit the market.

I'll say that the "instant" piano filters they added to the Stage 3 do a *great* job of quickly adjusting for a dull PA or cutting through a muddier mix.

[danrv]

Then you should play a Motif or a Kronos.

Yes you’re right for the sound but I chose the Nord primarily for it’s portability and weighted keys. This is more important than differences in sound.
A Motif XF8 would be nice if I had a roady but possibly a bit large for some stages. MOXF8 I think would give me the piano sound I’m after plus it’s pretty light for an 88.
Or maybe get a Roland FA06 as a top board to replace my Triton Extreme and play it’s pianos from the Stage 2.

This is my first Nord and when trying it in the store, the piano’s were really good through their studio monitors.
It’s not a big problem and I hope to find a Nord piano sample that suits my playing and gigs. It’s just the time it’s taken to learn how to best amplify Nords. This info is really only acquired through experience and helpful user forums such as here.
I bought 2 DXR10’s from the same store soon after trying my the Stage 2 through my Roland KC350.
Big improvement but over time now learn that these are ok for Nord pianos but you need to spend a lot more to get them sounding their best on stage.

I use the same Silver Grand sample that’s being used here. Sounds great because it’s recorded directly.


Achieving that quality on stage I think requires In ear monitors or very high quality and very expensive sound reinforcement.

I didn’t do a huge amount of research before buying the Stage 2 but did check the spec and user reviews. The price and their popularity helped me decide too.
For pianos, I think a portable 76 weighted key rompler maybe more suitable if one existed.
Have gone off topic a bit but will load in the 3D to replace the Silver. I’ve read it’s good in mono too.

[FILTERSWEEP7]

I was just wondering whatever happened to the other 'multi mic'd' version of the Royal Grand that they mentioned a while back on the Nord site. It never materialized and seems that it's not going to happen at this point, but I'm looking forward to more XL pianos in the future (hopefully Steinway or Ravenscroft perhaps).

[Gambold]

The wait has been really long. I'm not sure who decides what gets sampled, but for the past few years, Clavia has dumped a lot of stuff on us that has limited, if any, appeal. Chris Maene pianos? Digital layers? Baby upright? The Royal Grand is a specialist sample that was designed for headphones. Yes, they promised a standard sample and no they didn't deliver it.

The last good grand was the Silver and that came out over three years ago. The call on the forums for XL samples of some of the older grands has gone on for years, and has been ignored. The Nord piano library has ossified. I'm not a Nord customer anymore, partially for this reason. Regular new samples in the piano library is part of the high cost of the boards. Nord has backed off on that promise/expectation, to my way of thinking.

[Quai34]

Hi Gambold,
Ok, I didn't know that you weren't anymore a Nord User, that's why I was not seeing you around here lately compared to 1/2 years ago....Maybe we will see you back with the next grand that will come for sure...
Best wishes with your other boards...

[hector space]

The wait has been really long. I'm not sure who decides what gets sampled, but for the past few years, Clavia has dumped a lot of stuff on us that has limited, if any, appeal. Chris Maene pianos? Digital layers? Baby upright? The Royal Grand is a specialist sample that was designed for headphones. Yes, they promised a standard sample and no they didn't deliver it.

The last good grand was the Silver and that came out over three years ago. The call on the forums for XL samples of some of the older grands has gone on for years, and has been ignored. The Nord piano library has ossified. I'm not a Nord customer anymore, partially for this reason. Regular new samples in the piano library is part of the high cost of the boards. Nord has backed off on that promise/expectation, to my way of thinking.

Yes I agree entirely.

In fact it's worse than that because you are tied to whatever Nord chooses to produce. Their closed system doesn't provide the user the option to import their own piano sample sets from other libraries etc or edit the piano libraries themselves. So you're stuck with what they 'give' you! Yes you can create multi samples but they're limited to a single velocity layer - great for 1986!!!!

On my Kurzweil Forte (That I bought having given up on my Stage 2 HA88!) you have total freedom to import any library or sample and to edit every detail of the existing libraries. Evening replacing individual samples if you don't like the sound of a particular note at a particular velocity.
Consequently the Forte is capable of producing the exact instrument you want. And it is totally under your control.
Because of this the last 3 years have been probably the best in my rig's 40year history!