Nord User Forum

Hlaalu wrote:There is no right answer and everybody will have different preferencies, but my point is that one shouldn't argue in favour or against them just because "the real thing wasn't that way".

I was not arguing against these things. I agreed the other enhancements (which other boards have) can be useful. But Nord's philosopy tends to be to keep the adjustments to the basics. With a real B3 as a baseline, they already provide more adjustability than the real thing. I was just saying I'm not surprised they don't provide all those others, the way some other clonewheels do. (And for many/most users, that doesn't keep them from offering a great sounding and highly usable B3 emulation!)

Hlaalu wrote:

anotherscott wrote:but you are adding another layer of complication and lots more menu options, and Nord's philosophy is to be very cautious about such things.

Actually I think that one single page in the menu would address this: "B3 settings: Global / Per Program". That's it. It already happens in the EXTERN Menu for some options, as well as channel routing in the SYSTEM Menu. I don't see why it should be more complicated than make this single option available.

Ah, you've touched on an aspect of the Nord that I haven't played with at all. So, when Nord offers these options, if you pick "per program," what does the board do when you haven't specified anything for a particular program? It must have some default value for each parameter, right? So for the organ to be implemented that way, and not lose the current functionality of being able to alter these characteristics on a global basis, wouldn't you have to double the number of menu options for these organ settings? I mean, for each parameter, you'd need the program-specific parameter to get what you're after, but you'd also want to be able to adjust what the defaults are, for all the organ sounds where you haven't adjusted each paramneter individually, right? So you would need the current global settings menu for the mentioned parameters to establish the preferred default (type, click, trigger, rotary model, bass/horn, rotary speed, horn speed, and the 2 accel parameters were the ones mentioned), AND you would need all of them again within a specific program. No?

anotherscott wrote: Ah, you've touched on an aspect of the Nord that I haven't played with at all. So, when Nord offers these options, if you pick "per program," what does the board do when you haven't specified anything for a particular program? It must have some default value for each parameter, right? So for the organ to be implemented that way, and not lose the current functionality of being able to alter these characteristics on a global basis, wouldn't you have to double the number of menu options for these organ settings? I mean, for each parameter, you'd need the program-specific parameter to get what you're after, but you'd also want to be able to adjust what the defaults are, for all the organ sounds where you haven't adjusted each paramneter individually, right? So you would need the current global settings menu for the mentioned parameters to establish the preferred default (type, click, trigger, rotary model, bass/horn, rotary speed, horn speed, and the 2 accel parameters were the ones mentioned), AND you would need all of them again within a specific program. No?

Right now, that's actually not the way it works for the other options that currently let you choose between "per Program" and "Global", in that there are no doubled menu options but only one. Basically you first set whether that parameter will be per Program or Global, then you adjust that parameter.

Let's choose channel routing as an example: if you select "Global", then it's pretty much self-explanatory: all Programs will have their channels routed the way you set them from within any Program you find yourself into in that time. So page 1 of the menu will say "Global", page 2* will be "Ch1-2" etc.

Now if you set instead "per Program", page 2 will of course be different for every Program, as you set them. All the Programs you didn't specifically set will have the default value (in this example ch 1-2) until you set them differently.

What I am not sure of is what happens if you, after having set a bunch of Programs each with their own values, you then revert the main setting to "Global". I mean, sure enough all the values will go back to their default for all Programs but what I am not sure of is whether each of those Programs will still retain somewhere inside of them what the altered settings were, so that if you then switch back to "per Program" you'll find them again as you had previously set them. I would think that yes, very likely this is the case. Otherwise, to accidentally switch from "per Program" to "Global", even briefly while browsing the menu, would have a devastating effect on your Programs.

I myself use "per Program" routing, as some of my Programs are routed to ch 3, but I then never tried to revert back to "Global"...

Anyway, be it any way it is in this respect, it would take just the adding of a single page in the menu for the B3 settings to become like the channel routing or Extern. I hope it's not too unrealistic to hope that this will be someday part of a firmware update.

* These numbers are just used as an example. I don't remember now which page is exactly of the menu.

@Jo OSantos1 initiated this thread on October 12, 2017, there are now 512 posts over 52 pages. So...welcome to 2021!

Jo Osantos1 wrote:Am i the only one, that can not get the Hammond B3 of the Nord Stage 3 sounding good?

I had an Electro 4D, and the Hammond was really good! Now on the Stage, i cant get the same sound :S Help?

On reaching the first anniversary of having an NS388, I learned a lot from this thread...
-- Folks are passionate about B3 sounds
-- Nord updates have improved the NS3 B3
-- Some folks will never be satisfied
-- Response categories: "Not even close", "Pretty good", "Killer", "Sounds OK if you...do lots of tweaking/add outboard gear/play for an audience". (Omitting "Thanks"/"Agree"/"See another thread")
-- So many replies that topics have been re-cycled several times.
-- Lots of opinions, only one consensus: the NS3 will NEVER sound the same as a real B3 through a Leslie (but you can haul it to the gig yourself.)

My 2 cents: the NS3 B3 sounded pretty good out of the box, even better when I incorporated recommendations from forum users. & Happy New Year

kbmatson wrote:

Jo Osantos1 wrote:

kbmatson wrote:I dunno people ... I was "perplexed" by the S3 organ at first, but after tweaking it a good bit ... and yes it does need it .... and it growing on me ... and particularly after hearing it recorded in live/band setting ... I think it sounds fantastic - much better than the other clones i hear from time to time ... especially and ironically the Hammond brand clones.

Could you share your settings with me then?

OK - finally back with keyboard set up here .... let's see. I should qualify that I'm a rock/blues organ player and go for a grittier/raw sound. This likely would not be the best for jazz, etc.

My reference drawbar setting is 888808003 .... but I use for anything including 888000000 and all out and anything in between.
Percussion: typically on/fast/soft/third - but will vary dep. on song
chorus off or C3 usually - I love it with C3!

Type: vintage 2
Click: high
trigger: high
rotary: 122 close
Bass/Horn: 40/60 (more horn)
Rotary speed: Normal
Acc: Normal
Horn speed: normal
Acc: SLOW

Rotary Drive: 3.5 but will vary from song to song
Compressor: 8 w/ Fast Attack
Reverb: Stage 1 level:2.8

Amp Sim/EQ Section:
----------------------
Amp sim: off/clean
Treble: 6.5
Mid: Freq: 635 level: -3
Drive: 0
Bass: 10.5

I run backing tracks at our church, and we had a song that had a B3 in it. I deleted it and re-recorded it using these settings in the NS3. First time after redoing the track, band members say, "Oh you fixed the organ sound!" I have no idea what the previous person used to record it, but using these settings will fool most anyone unless they grew up paying an actual B3. Especially if recorded and played back through software like Ableton.

kbmatson wrote:

Jo Osantos1 wrote:

kbmatson wrote:I dunno people ... I was "perplexed" by the S3 organ at first, but after tweaking it a good bit ... and yes it does need it .... and it growing on me ... and particularly after hearing it recorded in live/band setting ... I think it sounds fantastic - much better than the other clones i hear from time to time ... especially and ironically the Hammond brand clones.

Could you share your settings with me then?

OK - finally back with keyboard set up here .... let's see. I should qualify that I'm a rock/blues organ player and go for a grittier/raw sound. This likely would not be the best for jazz, etc.

My reference drawbar setting is 888808003 .... but I use for anything including 888000000 and all out and anything in between.
Percussion: typically on/fast/soft/third - but will vary dep. on song
chorus off or C3 usually - I love it with C3!

Type: vintage 2
Click: high
trigger: high
rotary: 122 close
Bass/Horn: 40/60 (more horn)
Rotary speed: Normal
Acc: Normal
Horn speed: normal
Acc: SLOW

Rotary Drive: 3.5 but will vary from song to song
Compressor: 8 w/ Fast Attack
Reverb: Stage 1 level:2.8

Amp Sim/EQ Section:
----------------------
Amp sim: off/clean
Treble: 6.5
Mid: Freq: 635 level: -3
Drive: 0
Bass: 10.5

This is so interesting, as I have this EXACT set of edits going on with my NS3 and have a recollection of getting this from a separate source - a friend had texted them to me, perhaps from this site. I had even done an A/B video nearly a year ago to demonstrate this set of edits with the internal NS3 sim vs. the Neo Vent I still use. I'll track down that video and share it here if I can get it on YouTube. I don't remember chatting about this here and my memory is foggy from a nice holiday break.

I have used the Vent for my Leslie simulation dating back at least a decade ago, originally with the NS2 and now with the NS3. It's just part of my rig and I have all the cables, footswitch, mixer, etc. wired up to work with the Vent in my rack. I believe the NS3 with these edits gets SO VERY CLOSE that it's almost a waste to use a Vent. That hasn't stopped me, LOL. One thing I like about having the Vent through its own channel is that I can adjust the volume of the organ channel separately from the rest of the NS3. Also, there are rare occasions where I may be asked for a separate organ vs. other keys sound and having the Vent makes this a bit more feasible.

Just uploaded this to YouTube, an A/B video I made on 3/29/2020. It's not super high quality as it's just using my iPhone video and audio based on live amplification from a Motion Sound KP-500 stereo amplifier. The differences in Vent vs. NS3 internal sim are subtle. I find the Vent to be a more warm and "woody" sound that is subjective. When I play gigs using my IEMs, I constantly check out the differences and I usually go with the Vent as I can dial in the gain just right and not worry so much about how I am balancing that within the NS3 itself.



I also recall that I was getting over the flu when I took this video (possibly an early untested COVID?), so my apologies for my brief raspy voice.

Thanks,
Eric

Hey ericL -- thanks for posting an A/B comparison --it's the only valid way. Given the video's sound quality, I agree the audible difference between the Vent and the NS3 is minimal to insignificant.

Some possible variables when comparing it to a Vent is that the Vent has a wider range of adjustments, so it is possible to dial in a sound that is further from what's available from within the adjustable parameters on Nord's; and also you may hear other differences if you were to compare in mono vs. in stereo. But I am happy with the Nord's sim. I do have a Vent, but I haven't bothered using it on the NS3.

Thank you, @kbmatson. This is an excellent starting point to get into better B3 sounds.

kbmatson wrote:OK - finally back with keyboard set up here .... let's see. I should qualify that I'm a rock/blues organ player and go for a grittier/raw sound. This likely would not be the best for jazz, etc.

My reference drawbar setting is 888808003 .... but I use for anything including 888000000 and all out and anything in between.
Percussion: typically on/fast/soft/third - but will vary dep. on song
chorus off or C3 usually - I love it with C3!

Type: vintage 2
Click: high
trigger: high
rotary: 122 close
Bass/Horn: 40/60 (more horn)
Rotary speed: Normal
Acc: Normal
Horn speed: normal
Acc: SLOW

Rotary Drive: 3.5 but will vary from song to song
Compressor: 8 w/ Fast Attack
Reverb: Stage 1 level:2.8

Amp Sim/EQ Section:
----------------------
Amp sim: off/clean
Treble: 6.5
Mid: Freq: 635 level: -3
Drive: 0
Bass: 10.5

Al_DeKlein wrote:Below is an example of my NE5D drawbar organ sound for the Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers song "Don't Do Me Like That" from a Petty tribute show I did a couple weeks ago. Granted it's heavily processed to match the dropping wet reverb and tremolo effect on the recording (Leslie 122 Close rotary setting in mono)... my question to the NS3 Compact owners - can the NS3 organ cut like the NE5?

Are you able to share what registrations you used to play "Don't Do Me Like That"? I'm trying to play that song now, and I can't seem to get the tones right.

Thanks in advance!