Isn't it time for more flexible velocity curves?

[bluesbaba]

Yes,it says that NE3 does not provide power to the unit ;(
Why is that?
http://www.midisolutions.com/prodvel.htm

[bluesbaba]

http://larsee.dk/category/projects/
What about this one?

[michael_C1]

Yes,it says that NE3 does not provide power to the unit ;(
Why is that?
http://www.midisolutions.com/prodvel.htm

Hi bluesbaba!

If you read further down on that Midi Solutions webpage, the company states that a number of keyboards don't provide power for MIDI devices that require it. I think it's a design choice.

[michael_C1]

I have a theory about the limited power from the MIDI OUT jack, and also the velocity curves that Nord gives us which don’t reach down to softer dynamic levels, and which some of us consider inadequate. Although I’m not an electronics guy, I do know that heat is the enemy of electronics, and that heat limiting and dissipation is part of engineering design considerations with regard to long term reliability, and probably for reasons of stability as well.

Nord gives us an internal power supply for which we are very grateful, and as a result heat gets generated internally. I believe it’s op amps (?) on the circuit board that raise output volume to line levels, and more heat gets generated. However, a Nord is an extremely reliable instrument and I think that’s partly due to how well heat is minimized.

I don’t think having the MIDI jacks provide power to external devices is high on Nord’s priority list. Rather, a smaller power supply means less heat. Likewise, velocity curves that reach lower dynamics do so at a substantially lower volume and boosting those volumes at the line outputs means more heat generated on the circuit boards, or so I believe. Rather than do that and jeopardize reliability, my theory is that Nord has so far chosen not to give us velocity curves with quieter dynamics.

I think a solution that might make everyone happy would be to have, as an option, more sensitive velocity curves, with Nord explaining that there’s a tradeoff- we’ll have to raise our amplifier or PA levels to achieve the volumes we had before. I for one could easily live with that.

[Mr_-G-]

I have a theory about the limited power from the MIDI OUT jack, and also the velocity curves that Nord gives us which don’t reach down to softer dynamic levels, and which some of us consider inadequate.

That is not how digital transmission protocols like MIDI work, so it cannot be the case. MIDI is not about sensing a voltage intensity like the CV signals in analog synths, but a set of serial pulses at certain clock frequency that get converted into numbers at the receiving end. If the MIDI protocol pulses were not at the level expected, you would not get the message transmitted or just errors (but not consistently lower velocity response).

The power out of the MIDI OUT was never intended to power effect boxes (strictly speaking, it is not part of the MIDI specification, so there is no obligation to support it). I agree that it is a shame that there is not enough juice to power those little boxes, but it has no relation to velocity curves.

[michael_C1]

Thanks for the explanation about the MIDI digital transmission protocols Mr_-G- although it's WAY over my head

I don't always express myself clearly, but I wasn't intending to correlate the amount of power at the MIDI jack to velocity response. I was theorizing that 1) providing limited power at the MIDI jack and 2) giving us only louder dynamics velocity curves may have been design choices by Nord to minimize heat within the instruments and make them more reliable.

And I proposed again the velocity curve solution maurus first mentioned a few weeks ago.

[dazzdazz]

There are many factors involved with good piano action; here is an interesting link http://pianohq.com/piano-blog/tag/key/
I have tested my acoustic piano for downweight. It takes about 55 grams to push down the center C.
Compare that with a whopping 82 grams for the Nord Stage 2...
Then there is the resistance that you feel when pushing the key down. On a well regulated piano you feel the key going down - gravity works.
On the Nord you feel you are pushing a spring, a lever. That is mainly because the action is trying to emulate a real piano/ but there is no hammer on the end, no real mass involved.
I measured velocities in Logic when I recorded the Nord Stage. I can play softly around velocity 28-29, not much further. If a note hits velocity 6 for instance, it's an accident.
Interestingly, when you observe the up velocities, they tend to be fairly high usually, in the 90-100 region. So it takes a lot of effort to push down the key, but it comes up real easy. Again, due to the way the action works. With some kind of spring to pull it back to starting position.
A Clavia sales manager told me that the actions are calibrated via software in the factory...so forget those stories about technicians with screwdrivers to calibrate your Nord action.
I have played way better actions on DP's from Yamaha. But Clavia does so well in the sound department, the Ep's and pianos are the best on the market. Let's hope Clavia is reading the forum as well and will come up with a solution. It can't be solved with a different velocity curve though...

[whitenoise]

I don't like Clavia HA action. I tried to switch to HA76 but was really disappointed with the action. It's too heavy and too slow. SW73 is a trade-off. It can do anything well but grand piano sound. I've found it to work just perfect over external modi connection with Kurzweil SP2X which has Fatar TP40L action.

[michael_C1]

I measured velocities in Logic when I recorded the Nord Stage. I can play softly around velocity 28-29, not much further. If a note hits velocity 6 for instance, it's an accident.
A Clavia sales manager told me that the actions are calibrated via software in the factory...so forget those stories about technicians with screwdrivers to calibrate your Nord action.
I have played way better actions on DP's from Yamaha. But Clavia does so well in the sound department, the Ep's and pianos are the best on the market. Let's hope Clavia is reading the forum as well and will come up with a solution. It can't be solved with a different velocity curve though...

I totally agree that there are better actions, but it's entirely possible to get a wider velocity response with a different velocity curve. When i MIDI out to a PC running velocity curve software, then back in to my Nord Piano, I can get velocities down to the single digits with no trouble.

And another thing about that is that the keyboard feels more responsive even though the action itself remains the same. A parallel might be the way different latencies seem to change the way a keyboard feels.

[dazzdazz]

Could be a subjective thing. Still though, you cannot change the fact that down weight on a key exceeds normal piano values with software alone. Seriously: I'm considering tweaking the keyboard by putting some extra weight on each key...