Electro 7?

[cphollis]

Judging from this board, people are clinging to previous versions and the only Stage 4s you see are from in-house musicians sponsored by Clavia.

I think internet forums — which are literally vestiges from twenty years ago, and home mostly to people old enough to remember those days, AND who are either geeks with time to burn or who actually have issues with the hardware — are the WORST place to gauge real-world interest and experience.

Almost *nobody* who just happily buys a piece of kit and happily and efficiently uses it day-in, day-out will ever need or bother to visit a tech support forum, no matter how "community" it may feel.

I agree. I had a steep learning curve on my NS2, which led me here years ago.

If you head over to Keyboard Corner (keyboard players in general, not specific to any vendor), you'll notice a plethora of happy NS4 users.

[Schorsch]

Here ya go - it's a bit confusing, isn't it? I'm going to follow-up with the email they gave me at the end - that will likely take time for a response, but I will post it here when I get it. 1.png2.png3.png4.png5.png6.png

Yes that’s a bit confusing, agree - curious to see the final response and truth. But what’s next then, what is the essence of the final outcome?

[Gambold]

Ok, they responded quickly. First, here is my email that I sent (I included the screenshots of the chat):

> Hi, I'm following up with a question about the Nord Stage 4. On your site you state that it's the number 4 seller for Stage keyboards. However, the chat person said you don't sell very many of them. Please see the attached images and you'll understand what I'm asking. Thanks!<

Now, here is their response. As you can see, the "Sales Rank" is not based on actual units sold - they are putting the Stage 4 in 4th because it 'deserves' to be there due to its high cost. Which is rather strange logic:

Dear Customer,

thank you for your e-mail. The nord stage 4 is not our 4th place on sells in Stage Pianos. But because it costs a lot more than most of our top seller, it deserves a high ranking. If you have further questions feel free to contact me again. ​​​​​​​

Kind regards

Silas David Schettler, Studio - Synthesizer - Computer department
Tel: +49 9546 9223-30 | Fax: +49 9546 9223 28 | E-Mail: studio@thomann.de

Thus, I think we are best served using the Popularity listing on Thomann's to see what is truly selling the most. My fly in the ointment is doing the backstroke.

Fondly, Gambold

[Schorsch]

Agree - that’s a strange way to rank a product.

I just don’t see the conclusion - it does not make the instrument worse

[Gambold]

>it does not make the instrument worse<

Who ever said it did? I predicted they weren't selling that many of them, and Thomann's confirmed that in their chat.

I never suggested it wasn't a fine instrument. I'm sure it is. For $6000 it better be!

The OINTMENT is not the quality of Nord's keyboards. It's their crummy (non-existent) marketing, their increasingly-limited product line (no more organs, the Lead is a decade old, and the Wave closing in on five years)....and the fact that they are starting to slip behind on the features/price race that drives instrument sales.

You tell me. The Electro has to be their best-seller - Thomann's popularity chart would indicate that - when the E7 finally comes out, what should we expect in the mid- 2020s? A large color screen? Wifi compatibility? A big bump in memory? Stage 4 got none of these. And if they didn't build those things into their flagship model, I don't see them putting them on Junior.

Nord is in danger of becoming a "retro" line of instruments. I also have a Korg SV-2 which is determinedly retro - and that's fine and fun, but it also gets tedious at times. I would have liked a screen. And wifi. Etc.

[Gambold]

Oh, and this Thomann's business is a good reminder to never trust music vendors to provide honest, objective sales data. It's not just Thomann, I wouldn't expect Musician's Friend, Sweetwater or any of the rest to do so either. They want to sell product and oftentimes they want to sell very specific lines - so they are going to say anything on their site to help that cause.

Kudos to Thomann's for being prompt and honest with my inquiry (I doubt I'd ever hear back from Musician's Friend. MAYBE Sweetwater). But it's a good lesson - we need to find data from neutral industry observers, not the sales force.

[Schorsch]

The Thomann way to calculate the ranking is really quite special, but on the other hand it’s not wrong using a weighted approach by considering several characteristics, which is probably more meaningful than just looking at revenue or units sold. Assuming (sic!) that they use this formula for all instruments, not just Nords, it’s quite interesting that the Stage 4 88 ranks significantly higher than all Yamaha stage pianos and most of the Rolands, despite the fact that these vendors are investing much more into marketing and supposed innovations …….

[Gambold]

>it’s quite interesting that the Stage 4 88 ranks significantly higher than all Yamaha stage pianos and most of the Rolands, <

Honestly, I don't their Sales Rank meant anything. They admitted as much when they said the Stage 4 "deserved" to be placed 4th because it was expensive. They also said they hardly sold any because of the high cost and the low inventory they receive from Clavia.

So, why did they put it up so high? Probably to keep it in the public eye - after all, it's nice to sell a very expensive product, you make more money doing so. Hey, let's tell everyone this is our 4th ranked seller, then they might want one.

The Popularity list is probably a lot more accurate, but even here I would assume that Thomann tinkers with it to suit their marketing plans. I would guess the "Top Seller" badge is used when inventory is too high and they need to encourage people to order one.

https://www.thomann.de/intl/stage_piano ... P&cme=true

[Schorsch]

You may be right, you may be not - the essence from my point of view is not to trust any such information about rankings, market shares published by vendors etc but just buy the instrument that fits best to your needs and expectation now, no matter where companies might be going since these are also more a guess than a fact. The Nord Stage have always been a great product for many musicians and will remain so with the latest generation, but they will not feed the desires of everyone like others don’t do as well. Improvements are welcome but as long as enough people are willing to pay the price it will confirm Nord’s focus on high level but more niche type products

[Spider]

You may be right, you may be not - the essence from my point of view is not to trust any such information about rankings

Exactly this. Consider that Thomann is paying somebody to take care of its "rankings", it is a cost that must generate a corresponding profit to justify it. Why should a retailer publish detailed information about its sales? It goes against every basic principle of marketing. They are a profit organization, everything they do must push sales and produce revenue, of course they won't publish sales data just for the sake of transparency.
There are so many reason NOT to do it, just a couple I can think of (and there are surely many more):
- sharing confidential business data with the public, that can be seen and used by competitors, hackers, tax agencies etc.
- of course the "top" products will be featured extensively at the top of the rankings, which in itself is a form of advertising. So the best-selling products will be pushed even more, while the products at the bottom of the list will be lost and forgotten. This makes little sense: a retailer wants to push the low-selling items, while the big sellers are already successful by themselves.

So, why are they doing it? Because it's a marketing tool. It's probably a kind of weighted average between the number of units sold and the individual cost of the units, and then reshuffled according to marketing needs. They will use it to give more prominence to the right product at the right time, pushing low-selling items, promoting end-of-stock products to clear inventory, etc. For example, lately the Moog One was always at the top (or very near the top) of the "Synth" category. I will NEVER believe that people are buying an ELEVEN-THOUSAND-EURO SYNTH more than any other cheap product from Yamaha, Korg, Roland or Behringer.