Nord User Forum

It sure would be beneficial if Nord could have all the artists of the NS4 denos explain all the sounds they did. To increase the content they can also explain about their song and why they went with those sounds for the song. Apparently they read these forums right? Just a hunch but I do believe these kinds of videos could swing more people to getting the NS4. Make it happen Nord

Swampfox wrote:

anotherscott wrote:

Swampfox wrote:The issue isn't just the number of Pianos you can keep loaded, it's also a limitation of the quality of the sampling process of the instruments stored . The very best VSTs are larger, sometimes much larger, than 4 GB. Arguably, you don't need such extreme detail, or authenticity from a stage piano, but it's a limitation and frankly a design decision made by Clavia.

I think you're suggesting that, if Nords had more memory, Nord could come out with larger pianos which could sound better. But considering that their largest piano is only 244 mb, even having 2 gb instruments out there gives them plenty of leeway to make something larger if they want to.

One problem is, if they started coming out with 1GB, 2GB, or bigger pianos (if they made models that would accommodate them), those pianos would not run on older machines, negating one of the biggest long term appeals of the Nord brand, that the old machines can usually load the new samples.

Also, size isn't everything. Many people have preferred the 200 mb Nord pianos to the multi-gigabyte Kronos pianos. If you use your ears to compare the results, you may come to a different conclusion than you would merely by reading specs. Nord know hows to make great sounding pianos that don't need tons of memory. People have had complaints about Nords... but the quality of the piano sounds is rarely among them. So the counter argument could be, why put money into fixing a problem that doesn't exist, addressing something that people are already happy with, when there are so many more useful things they could be putting their design and financial resources into? And since these things do have costs, why ask consumers to pay for something that most of them probably won't even see a real audible or operational benefit from?

I love my Nord and mostly agree with what you are saying. Yet, some of the very best AP VSTs do sound more natural, at least to my ear. Scarbee EPs are also wonderful and the most Rhodes-like out there but his file size is over 4GB, and that's modelling an EP. Yet, that's an apple to oranges comparison, because the Nord still has some of the best sounding Pianos you'll find on a slab. Even in my home studio I almost never use computer VSTs, it's just not worth the effort. I'd buy a NS4 if I didn't own a NS3 but I'm not rushing to upgrade, it has zero to do with the perceived memory issue but rather that the NS3 is such a good keyboard, more than suits my needs and doesn't justify replacement.

Nice to see other owners of NS3 sharing the same sentiment

My impressions are that the NS4 is to the 3 what the 3 was to the 2. Namely, if you already have the previous model, it's likely you won't feel the need to upgrade. But if you are in the need, and in the market, for a new Nord and you are about to pull the trigger on a Stage, I guess most people would go for the latest model. I certainly would.

The only out of place element of all this picture is the price... in this sense, the S4 is not what the 3 was to the 2.

Swampfox wrote:

dansnord wrote:The issue isn't just the number of Pianos you can keep loaded, it's also a limitation of the quality of the sampling process of the instruments stored . The very best VSTs are larger, sometimes much larger, than 4 GB. Arguably, you don't need such extreme detail, or authenticity from a stage piano, but it's a limitation and frankly a design decision made by Clavia.

A lot of that's often repetition, though. The same piano sampled with different mic positions or room ambiences, for example. That wouldn't be a priority on a stage piano designed for live use.

A lot more goes into the efficacy of a sampled instrument than the size of the sample library itself. After all, there'll always be more and more memory and hard drive space so libraries will get larger and larger. In a decade's time will that 4Gb library you're shining a light on now, be redundant because there are libraries taking up terabytes?

Hlaalu wrote:My impressions are that the NS4 is to the 3 what the 3 was to the 2. Namely, if you already have the previous model, it's likely you won't feel the need to upgrade. But if you are in the need, and in the market, for a new Nord and you are about to pull the trigger on a Stage, I guess most people would go for the latest model. I certainly would.

The only out of place element of all this picture is the price... in this sense, the S4 is not what the 3 was to the 2.

It is exactly that. The FX section + presets + 3rd synth is something that I appreciate a lot, but does not justify the upgrade in my case. However, if I had a NS2 or another brand, I would go for the NS4.

Just a point of perspective on sample size and some other musings. I mostly play live (but also do some recording). I've been playing since the 70's. I pretty much always use a single bright piano sample in my ancient Alesis QS 8.2. It is probably no more than 10 MB in size. it was released two decades ago. If you played the Alesis by itself next to any of the grand pianos in my NS3 it would pale on what most people view as a quality scale, yet for me it works way better than any of the Nord Pianos. It fits incredibly well in a mix and for me in a live setting definitely works better than any of the Nord Piano samples.

Would I use it to record a classical piece or even a jazz piece, probably not. But for the cover band music I play (60's to current day with a large sample of 80's oldies) it just works way better. The only time I don't use the piano on the Alesis is when I only bring a single keyboard which will always be my NS3.

Will I trade my NS3 for a NS4, probably not anytime soon, specifically because of the price. But from what I see (assuming no major bugs) the NS4 is a really nicely thought out keyboard. It definitely flattens the user interface having everything directly available rather than buried in a hidden panel (because one of the NS3 panels is always hidden).

Loss of song mode doesn't matter to me as that implementation always felt forced and spinning a dial to get to a random song is just a terrible way to find your next song. I also don't have 1 program per song. I have Ogran, Piano and Synth settings that get used as needed across all songs. The only specific song programs are those that have sample synth settings for songs that have sampled parts in them like Uptown Funk, and there truly aren't that many of those.

I come from an era where you had an organ, a Piano of some kind (Rhodes, Yamaha CP70) and if you were lucky an Analog Synth.

I've not had any trouble playing many hundreds of songs across a very wide range of musical styles with just a handful of core sounds (piano, rhodes, clav, hammond, surf organ, string pads, choir pads, horns, and a few other misc Synth sounds).

Clearly other people have different methodologies for organizing their music, but I never found any of the Nord Keyboards to be well designed as the centerpiece of a keyboard stack. Its simply way easier to manage that information and control from tools like On-Song or Set List manager, or any other tool that is actually designed to manage song information which none of the Nord keyboards are functionally designed to do.

Can you do it, yes. but its really rudimentary compared to the tools that are purpose built for that task. You can hammer in a screw with a wrench but a screw gun is going to way more effective.

tomzi wrote:World's First Look at the NEW Nord Stage 4 - At The Nord Factory!

The new PUMP effect sounds awesome!

spalding12 wrote: i LOVE Jack Duxbury
Andertons videos are always wonderful
but.... (and i love him)... he's a Nord FANBOY of the utmost degree
but... Jack @ Andertons has NEVER said a negative thing about ANY Nord keyboard EVER
he was the PERFECT one to sit with the "product specialist" for that "HIGHLY REHEARSED" demo of the Stage 4

That's called "marketing". Of course that video is a paid promo video, like any other "influencer" video. It's all advertising, pure and simple.
Of course it will not say much (if any) negative things about the product, because THEY ARE A RETAILER and THEY WANT TO SELL IT.
Please find me a retailer's review that says negative things about a product, any product, that they are selling.
Here in Italy we have a say: "If you want to know if the wine is good, don't ask the innkeeper"

You know when a new product comes out, and miraculously all the web's influencers on THE SAME DAY release their own "independent", "honest" and "unbiased" reviews? All exactly coordinated with the official product launch? And they all just randomly found that product on their sidewalk before it was even available in stores, just in time to "spontaneously" record a video and coincidentially upload it exactly at the same moment that the product is officially launched?
Suggesting that Clavia saw the "nearly universal negative thoughts on the internet about the Stage 4" and ON THE SAME DAY "called Jack... flew him to Stockholm", recorded a 31-minute video, edited, produced it, and released it in desperate hurry "to accomplish some DAMAGE CONTROL"... well it honestly made me laugh out loud. This beats most of the internet's funniest conspiracy theories
That video was surely recorded weeks or months ago, like all the others.

Honestly, you sound almost personally offended by Clavia. What have they done to you? Believe it or not, the NS4 is the most radical innovation they have ever done in the Stage line. I can imagine they were probably discussing internally if it was too brutal of a change, and if they should make it more similar to the NS3 not to alienate their affectionate customers

That said, there are so many options nowadays that we are really spoiled for choice.The Yamaha Montage, MODX, YC and CP, the Kurzweil 2700, Roland Fantoms, Korg Kronos/Nautilus, and even many cheaper boards like the Studiologics are all excellent alternatives, many of them are actually much better than Nords in some aspects, and all of them are cheaper.
If the Stage is not for you, why you keep ranting and whining on a Nord forum instead of checking out the alternatives?

I have the impression that contrary to popular belief, Clavia DOES monitor closely the market and the competition.
Look at the main changes in the NS4: much, much better synth sections and effects.
Look at the main disadvantages of the competition that I listed in my previous points: synth section and effects. The competing boards either don't have a "real" synth section, or it's buried in menus and not so friendly to program. The same with the effect section, which is often more like an add-on afterthought rather than an integral part of the instrument. As far as I can tell, no competitor offers such a comprehensive front-panel, knobs-and-buttons interface for synth AND effects in an instrument that ALSO carries a complete piano and organ section.

Clavia probably thought that there's only so much you can improve as far as pianos and organs... after all, a piano sounds like a piano, an organ sounds like an organ, and even if it's true that Nord is not releasing updates at the frequency we got used to, it's not like their current pianos and organs sound bad.
I totally agree that after all these years the organ should be updated, but still it doesn't sound BAD: the only better-sounding ones are dedicated organ clones like the Hammonds, Crumars and Legends. It's still hard to find a better organ in the Rolands, Yamahas, Kurzweils and Korgs.

So Clavia didn't fix what was not broken, and concentrated in separating themselves even more from the competition in their strongest areas: real-time synths and effects.
Sonically speaking, the only thing that they still refuse to really improve is the sample section, still limited to single layer sampling. But even there the new sample format introduced significant upgrades.
To me, the worst shortcomings of the NS4 are not in sound, but in the lack of "modern" connectivity: USB audio, bluetooth MIDI, audio interface, real audio ins, XLR outs, more MIDI outs to make full use of the Extern sections, etc.

Of course, everyone's needs are different and there will always be somebody who's not satisfied with the new board. But for the majority of users, and in the context of current competition, I think the NS4 is a very strong upgrade (with the above criticisms).


That said, my old trusty NS2EX still does everything I want...

What I really like in Anderton's promo video is that we are to see Nord's HQ, on the 3rd or 4th floor of a downtown (?) Stockholm building, far from any big factories !

Fred